before opening a channel and inviting them it would make sense to know that there’s someone who can actually help them.
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That kind of attitude WONT help for sure.
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I will look at the FAQ integration and send to them.
But we need to understand that they gain NOTHING from this. The grin community is so small, it would be a huge effort for them with zero return.
So WE need to be the ones that put in the work here.
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If they dont have the technical capacity to integrate with that, i think not to hussle then. Finding excuses is easy.
If they want to integrate, they will integrate and we will put work sure.
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The question is why would they want to? What would they gain from it?
No doubt that we want them to, of course.
How can you guarantee that?
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there are a few important things to realize:
- grin cex integration is a lot easier than dex integration, so giving them cex integration info likely won’t really help them
- they would need to invest a lot of time to integrate it and have very low return value because grin community is small
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Thank you. I just read the linked document and was baffled as to how that would help
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More from the Serai developer:
The main issue is pipelining of the slatepack which needs signing to all validators. That should be done by placing it on the Tributary.
So we’d have to publish an unsigned TX to the Tributary with the slatepack, ideally with a small proof it isn’t spam.
The question becomes what proof to use for anti-spam (Tor PoW?) and adding a validator RPC to even receive such slatepacks.
Is this where Bisq required the collateral?
They go on:
The much easier, but also likely improper, solution would be to place the slatepacks on Grin itself.
If a user could publish the slatepack on Grin, the Serai flow would be trivial. My question would be how damaging it is to Grin (1 and 2) can a slatepack be sent to the receiver, the receiver signs, and the receiver publishes the TX?
I believe at least the original format required a round trip.
If there is such a one way format, and we can associate arbitrary data with an output, this likely becomes sufficiently trivial.
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You forgot to add '‘inflation is high’’ and ''we have no man power ‘’
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Did you show them the integration docs ?
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Cobra, you are missing the point. The point is that every developer team at every exchange has very limited resources and time.
It would never under any circumstances benefit them to spend their limited time and resources to integrate with Grin because the return on investment is so low.
Now if we want exchanges to integrate with Grin (and both I and @vegycslol do), then the Grin community needs to put our own effort in and not just say “here’s some irrelevant docs, good luck”.
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Define community effort then please. I didnt get this part specifically.
Technically or some other thing ?
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For starters, someone that can answer these questions and offer some feedback: Suggestion: Make DEX - Gate.io is Over - #48 by trab
I think I’ve made a good philosophical case for as to why implementing Grin on Serai could be beneficial to Serai already. But I need a more technical resource
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Moving discussion about integration with Serai to this dedicated thread: Serai DEX integration
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No need to reinvent the wheel. These discussions took place on how Bisq can implement it, how to verify transactions etc. So I would start by looking how Bisq implemented it, then we can think if there are improvements that can be made, e.g. working without a collateral.
It should indeed be clear from the beginning that this would be an ‘idealistic’ project for Seria, likely with little return of investment on the short term.I do not know why we even have low liquidity on Bisq, but if we cannot get high liquidity there, there is no reason to assume it would be much better on Serai.
On a first glance, the systems are similar, with two parties interacting plus a mediator/validator in Bisq who checks if a payment came through. Both Bisq and Seria appear to use a multisig, although Bisq uses a 2 out of 2 multisig, and Serai apears to use a treshold multisig. So there are still some differences to consider. Bisq uses the grinnode live transaction proof verification API, Serai could probably do the same to have an easy way to verify if grin transactions actually came through.
I think Bisq uses a collateral in the 2-2 multisig to protect against spam and to completely cover for cost in case of fraudulent behavior (which was one of the questions by the Serai devs). Normally the coin itself would be used as collateral, and spam protection, but with Grin the coin itself cannot be locked in the 2-2 multisig, so instead they use a BTC collateral, to achieve the same objective.
When you think about it, this is all completely valid and acceptable for a DEX, so again no clear explanation why Bisq has low liquidity nor any reason to assume Serai would get a better liquidity from the community.
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If it weren’t for Coingecko listing of trading pairs of available exchanges of Grin, I would not had any idea where is listed Grin, and of Bisq I only heard of it on the forum.
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@emi22n On Grin Hub you can find a lot of resources, among others a list of exchanges:
https://github.com/grincc/hub/blob/main/mining-exchanges.md#exchanges [no preview]
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we all have to eventually admit with grin current situation that interactive MW protocol may not work in the end compare to non interactive MW protocol
maybe cex and dex will have easy time to implement non interactive MW coins
Interactivity was preserved by Igno for core cryptographic benefits. It’s fundamental to mimblewimble. There isn’t some equal non interactive version, something has to be compromised to get there.
I would not compromise anything for ease of integration with a dex, especially considering we already have one that nobody uses.
When there is demand, there are lots of options to compromise in the integration, rather than the protocol.
For cex integration, it is nothing, maybe one good programmer working for a couple weeks on an implementation. We already have a working example of this that everybody uses.
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