do u ever wish sending money was as easy as sending email?
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Thanks for your well worded and thoughtful response.
I’m niether of those things
So, ya, no offense, but the rabbit hole you’re talking about is sort of irrelevant.
Shockingly I highly value my political beliefs and are more interested in seeing a project thats loosely related to them preserve that connection, as this is an unsubstantiated level of success.
The cypherpunks are prone to bitrot and the old sources are so god damn poorly written no one wants to read them.
The liberty dollar trail was in 2009 to 2011, 3 years after the bitcoin launch and yet it still forgotten; a judge calling someone an economic terrorist for starting a stateless currency may in fact be important information to people, interacting with a stateless currency. Yet the news didn’t spread. Thats the level of … whats the word… culture-spready-ness here. So naturally I believe my rabbithole is quite important even if its just to warn people the dangers of what it is they are doing so they are slightly better chances of succeeding and I’m not going to pass up a chance to proselytize
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That’s why you should keep talking. I will give you many opportunities to share. So I can learn. Everything I need to know. 
So is it going to dump when people work out there is no demand on Hotbit?
Is there a reason demand would dry up on hotbit?
as of writing it is 53% of the market, so yeah it would make a dent
I just wanted to call favorites here. @cleopatra nailed it. That was the beginning of a conversation. Maybe the good doctor may return one day. Who knows these things.
Sending emails is actually pretty bad UX for most people. You already have contactless card payments in the traditional finance sector but the information your payment leaks still sucks. Bitcoin payments with QR codes is pretty neat UX and it can work with both physical and online businesses, I think we can build on that.
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And yet it’s a UX that a large % of the world does every day. I’m curious what you think is bad about it? It seems like a fantastic way to organise and disseminate thoughts that scales to an organisational level for correspondance and beyond for newsletters. Nothing else really offers the same benefit. The ubiquity of email is why it’s a useful comparison/question to ask, if you ask someone who’s never made a cryptocurrency transaction to imagine how it happens it’s likely quite fuzzy for them. If you say it’s as easy as sending an email it immediately tells a few things, no annoying pin numbers and extra information I normally need for my bank transfer, maybe I don’t need to log in (outlook, thunderbird). Agreed that the QR code is a neat UX.
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Wow reading 10 minutes through this thread just made me a headache
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I think we are comparing apples to oranges. Don’t get me wrong, I love email and I think it is great for offline communication, but you are still required to sign up with a service, figure out how to set up spam filters, and there are far better alternatives for real time communication. When it comes to send crypto, you don’t need any of the above steps already and there is still room for improvement.
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Why the hell would you read this all? Half of it is worthless in a day
I can’t answer to your question…sadly my day is a boring one
I think payments are only a portion of transfers.
I agree that contactless card/phone payments will be very hard to beat. It just works really well and users don’t really care about trust issues. Besides protection, security and insurance provided by the middleman is strong.
Sending money to individuals (no point of sale) is still hard today. Sending money internationally (e.g to family or friends) is a real pain. Imagine just attaching money (the .json file) to your happy birthday grandma email.
Ofcourse we should get to a point where grandma shouldn’t even see the .json file and have to use grin wallet receive commands.
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The breakthrough email offered was interoperability and ubiquity. User experience was an afterthought.
“Beaming” money between mobile banking users of the same banks is functional. Credit cards also theoretically support this, but legal usually prevents any implementations. Maybe some bank has intra-bank “plastic-to-plastic” transactions working. Cooperation between several banks is still uncommon, but the Swedish “Swish” is one tough competitor.
But these centralized systems have one thing in common: they keep crashing.
Good and popular PoW coins “just work”. If grin ever had a “system status page” it would just show: 
The first users, and with them, the “market” for grin, will be easier to convince to join us if the interface they see is something they are used to already. One rule in design is: do only one thing different from the simplest/commonest way others do things. So doing things the same way as is Venmo, N26, Revolut, and some of the old guard like Paypal or even your local brick and mortar bank.
If a grin wallet or payment process can do only one thing differently, where / in what way would you want that difference to manifest?
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i don’t find sending money to individuals to be hard at all. I do it all the time with square, venmo, paypal, apple pay etc. all of these are roughly a million times easier than most crypto’s. If we want support we have to at least match these experiences and currently we aren’t close. Perhaps internationally is harder, but that’s not a thing I do. Certainly some crypto has started to fill that particular niche.
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Welcome to my struggle. It will be a longer march if we try to demonstrate this here with words. You need to give up and come to the design wing where we recognize that the failure is at the product level, and we seek to crack the code on the distribution nut using perception modeling and design. There is a brand called Bitcoin that we have to overcome in the consensus paradigm if we are to gain new ground and accomplish the mission. This is a game.
We fight for the user and it a waste of time here if they read @mseider comments and thought they were useless. We have to listen to people like @mseider @clarky07 if we are to ever be more than this endless loop of speculation. We want people to use Grin. Not trade it.
My confidence is sundered here. It is an echo chamber that will kill itself if we do not unite and synchronize around the problems that we all know need to be solved.
Come to where that’s happening. This is not the place. Gitter > Grin/design
It is technology’s Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs. Engineering on the bottom, design last. And in this case. Design is what prevents us from breaking out. Design is interdisciplinary and we are building that here at Grin.
Grin now listed on OKEx
And that is what we shall do. This team will build a back door to the real world. We don’t have to smash through the wall if we disguise ourselves. I believe they call that a trojan horse. If you ever want to come chat with the designers who are figuring this stuff out, then we’re over at Gitter > Grin/design
Coingecko is yelling at hotbit
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