This is fine
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I am sure that there is a trump card in the sleeve. But it is worth keeping silent otherwise casti MimbleWimble.
Huh… did the markets go crazy?
… beams price raised .03$ in response to a outage
in other news hotbit overtook bitforex; which has 2:1ish ratio of btc to usdt trading
depending on your stance on eth, the grin market is being priced in either ~63% or ~45% real coins vs ~30% usdt on the overall market, with trading incentives underestimating it
i.e. Market health is improving
edit// the range between exchanges is also much smaller 2-4.5; with the low 2’s being only usdt exchanges, which is in a down trend https://bitinfocharts.com/markets/kraken/usdt-usd-1m.html and was having a slight mood swing. Not oct by any means but worse of the last week.
Some tentative buys may be in order and setting up some optimistic orders
What does FOMO smell like?
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As a non-techie, regular guy (turned on to this website by a techie friend), here are my thoughts about cryptocurrency: 1) I don’t trust it at all. BitCoin was made famous (to me) by being the currency of a terrible black market so a-holes could buy drugs and people - not sure if that’s true, but that’s what I surmised. Then, BitCoin was made famous by being a total boom-bust stock thing = untrustworthy. I mean, even the name “crypto” sounds bad. 2) It seems like it has no value, right? I mean, no one has convinced me (the average Joe) that this has any value, so why would I want it? Or worse, pay for it or accept it for goods and services?, 3) Regular money works fine already, why would I switch?
FYI - not posting because I want to be a debbie-downer, but I am an intelligent, somewhat well informed non-tech person to give some perspective on how products such as this might be perceived. People are the most conservative with their kids, and their $$$, make this feel safe…?
It is most definitely not safe.
Give it 5 - 10 years.
From a simple look at history, we all know that the world did not wait for crypto to produce much more calamitous crises. These crises will always happen, intrinsic to humanity for it is both the greatest human strength and weakness to believe in “stories”.
Now if you get back to crypto inception, the only claim that Satoshi Nakamoto has made is to propose a solution to create - for the first time in human history - a trustless transactional environment. Understanding that is key to seeing why this is a radical shift in the way we institutionalize the financial world and even our monolithic, sempiternal financial establishments, despite resistance, are moving along with the shift toward a trustless, decentralized transactional standard (e.g. Hyperledger).
Yet people are missing this very point and sell crypto every day for what it is not; speed we have it in EMV systems, privacy is like power, it is taken not given [by technology] and so on…
They use crypto in setups that require them to delegate “trust” (exchanges, pools, banks, SPV wallets), essentially killing its very purpose, or use shortcuts that alienates consensus and even security (e.g. pruned nodes are just selfish entities that do not contribute to the consensus and are essentially worthless to the group).
Crypto is misunderstood and misused, but it is for real.
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How did you find this place?
You usually don’t get to the cutting edge without passing thru the popular and you should have picked up some of the culture
Keep in mind while reading, I’m defining my political beliefs not defending them.
being the currency of a terrible black market so a-holes could buy drugs and people - not sure if that’s true, but that’s what I surmised.
Drugs yes, slavery no.
Welcome to my rabbit hole alice. I believe drugs shouldn’t be illegal, period. This is not an uncommon opinion around here.
Drugs absolutely exist and is a measurable part of the economy here; this is not a bug its a feature. And I would like to point you towards this study https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=243664
“This new breed of drug dealer is also
likely to be relatively free from the violence typically associated with traditional drug markets”
The goal of agorism and movements that take some of its elements(like the cipherpunks) is to create a grey market with all the market systems that modern capitalism has, rather then order enforced by violence like with gang and cartel structures. So when the silk road has an ebay like dispute resolution system, rather then a mafia like hitman if you displease the family, we are not talking about usual black markets.
Feel free to disagree loudly, but within my mind this is successfully improving the world, and if you disagree, I don’t care for reasons that would make me sound even worse. The more radical parts of this scene like “assassination markets” failed Assassination Politics - by Jim Bell I remember that project raised a few hundred dollars and then disappeared, how exactly would slavery work?
BitCoin was made famous by being a total boom-bust stock thing = untrustworthy
I blame that on ico’s. When bitcoin succeed(and it has and anyone saying otherwise has no sense of history) people didn’t want to believe my politics were working, so they came up with the theory that the tech is literally magic. Eth guy made a mistake that “smart contracts” should be smart and contracts, a rather understandable mistake but a disastrous one, we went from lightly programmable money with bitcoin to fully Turing compete eth and they made this theory that computer run corporations would be literally magic and made the dro, it boomed and busted, and what i call the shitcoin economy started to see the boom and got rather hungry.
Such is capitalism, people are allowed to be stupid and it takes some time to build up the ecosystem, but I strongly believe in market forces, that these things are anti-fragile or whatever word or phase you want to use, it will get better in time; but will take time and an emotional roller coaster, its not a game for everyone but its one I prefer to play then not.
- It seems like it has no value, right? I mean, no one has convinced me (the average Joe) that this has any value, so why would I want it?
- Regular money works fine already, why would I switch?
Proof of work is a direct attack on the taxation theory of money.
I believe the status quo is held up by a fair bit of the latter and I don’t like that
So what is this taxation theory of money: Imagine a king starts a war and need to feed an army; rather then trying to solve this problem he does the following:
-
he puts his face on some coins
-
he gives these coins to his soldiers
-
???
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win the war, with the well fed troops
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kill civilians without coins after the war is done
Step three works for complicated reasons this king doesn’t nessery understand, but the modern world we at least claim to go read someone who says capitalism manages to feed people take your pick of those theorys and put it in step three. But this king ideas get passed to his children, get written into books whatever and you get an evolutionary process, the type of things evolution makes are not nice, but they do work.
Take that in the context of america being the world reserve currency, the fact it spends a chunk of change on middle east, and it trades weapons for the oil to be priced in dollars. Same shit a touch more complicated.
I hate war and love money; what do? I’ll make my own.
What a great new idea I hear you say. Remove the war and its bound to be better, why didn’t anyone else think of that?
They did.
One such example is liberty dollar heres some details on the conviction
On March 18, 2011, von NotHaus was convicted of “making, possessing and selling his own coins”, after a jury in Statesville, North Carolina deliberated for less than two hours.[27] The jury found him guilty of one count under 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2, one count of violating 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2, and one count of conspiracy, under 18 U.S.C. § 371, to violate sections 485 and 486.[28] He faces up to 15 years in prison, a $250,000 fine, and may be forced to give $7 million worth of minted coins and precious metals to the government, weighing 16,000 pounds.[27] Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina, Anne M. Tompkins, described the Liberty Dollar as “a unique form of domestic terrorism” that is trying “to undermine the legitimate currency of this country”.[29] The Justice Department press release quotes her as saying: “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country.”[29]
such things were quite hazardous to your health. So what made bitcoin different? The internet mostly and the pow theory, I suggest you do read it, while thinking “how can I destroy this”.
What matters is if the state can destroy it.
Grin being private, with its own custom pow, and a culture I can respect I believe has the best chance of surviving if the door bitcoin open is slammed shut, nothing more nothing less.
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I will express my opinion and the whole philosophy of the situation around Bitcoin in one question that was asked on Twitter when Bitcoin cost 16k.
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE?
- Bitcoin at 30k?
- Bitcoin as a means of payment available to all?
Satoshi Nakamoto with all his insides made only a new opportunity for humanity to free itself from the empty stifling shackles of the power of money. Money encompassed humanity, even without prejudice to value.
Power and control have long since been lost over existing financial institutions; they are controlled only by a sophisticated machine, meaningless.
Bitcoin is a revolution in people’s minds and minds, not imaginary but based on POW.
Bitcoin had institutes only because we were eagerly waiting for free money.
With the help of the pump and the ASIC we were raped!
So grin at them (ツ)!
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LOL - my point was that I, as an average consumer, do not understand. If you think you’ll convince the world that your product is worthwhile with bloggy diatribe, I think you’re missing the point of marketing. If you are correct that we “are missing the point”, then what are you going to do about it? I don’t think patronizing tones and platitudes a marketing platform make, but hey I’m not in business. It doesn’t matter how “right” you are - you’re not trying to convince well informed techie bloggers, you’re trying to convince the general public.
PS - just because people do bad things doesn’t mean you get to pass on the responsibility that all of us have in trying to make the world a better place. An inconvenient truth!
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It went up earlier today and then down again, but at least we are +25% lead time
Hey monkyyy
Thanks for your well worded and thoughtful response. I am definitely learning a lot. Like I said, I got turned on to this website from someone on the inside - a fresh outside look might be useful, he thought. I’m more useful as an outsider if I haven’t “picked up the culture” no? Otherwise its a narrow group of folks with similar ideas stroking their - uh - egos.
Anyway - all fair points you make, and I don’t pretend to want to argue the merits of this system. I really don’t understand it or really want to. My only point was, as an outsider, I am much more reflective of the average population than an insider. And, I was telling you the things that I, and perhaps an “average consumer” am turned off by. The discussion I was trying to promote was how your smart techie team of insiders can sell this to the people that matter when it comes to selling: everyone else.
So, ya, no offense, but the rabbit hole you’re talking about is sort of irrelevant. Again not sure if this is what you’re used to, but I’m not arguing about any of the topics you are mentioning, I’m saying how do you plan to calm the fears/perceptions of the average consumer? Again, nerd diatribe won’t work, trust me.
Thank you again though for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully and without malice. Sorry if I am being to harsh in my wording - same team same team =)
Think of Grin this way
China is building a social credit system. Dissidents will be frozen out of everyday necessities such as public transport.
Grin is a permissionless currency to fight technology based repression. You may not need it as a wealthy westerner.
You may desperately need it as a reform minded indicidual under a highly repressive regime.
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As much as I gladly admit my inability to speak English colloquially, I don’t get how my “bloggy diatribe” was selling anything to you here – rather the opposite and that’s precisely why it had nothing “marketable” in it as you properly pointed out.
Now If that made you LOL then everyone’s happy and I’ll start using these colloquial onomatopoeias to sound as cool as you next time. 
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We must listen to the world if ever we want to reach them. Crypto is a bubble. Grin is getting out of it. Or would you prefer that we stay here? Because we cannot. Our emission model is our ticket out of here.
Listen to people and learn, as I am learning from you. We must somehow reach the good doctor. Or somebody close to him; his children perhaps. This revolution is for everyone. We must find a way to bring it to the world. Period. End.
Technology is just a tool. In terms of getting the kids working together and motivating them, the teacher is the most important. -Bill Gates
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Yes. Thank you for teaching. We need that. Lot’s of it. In the product, which is currently an unsafe empty husk with no soul across the board.
The echo chamber is a death knell for this movement. Grin is a new hope. And it is the last experiment we will have to endure. If we listen to people, and respond, we will win.
I should also point out that we don’t get to have this conversation with people when we present. They will make a judgement. You just heard it. That is the consensus paradigm outside of this bubble.
His miseducation, resistance, and hesitation are all things that can be overcome through perception modeling. We will achieve what nobody else has been able to do in 10 years of trying. That is Grin.
Haha - good point. Thanks for the good attitude. Cheers!
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You must stay for tea, sir. I’m sure someone will be along shorty.
HOLD HIM DOWN EVERYBODY!!! This noob is getting a tattoo.