GRIN is officially worth LESS than BEAM today. First time it ever happened (that I’m aware of).
I remember the big splash when GRIN first launched in early 2019. It was several times more valuable (per coin) than BEAM. I recall Jan 2019, GRIN started out at about $10 per coin. I was one of the earliest GRIN miners with several hundred GTX 1070ti’s mining GRIN running GMiner. BEAM started out a couple weeks before at about $0.60 per coin. I had no interest in mining BEAM. GRIN was the star, not BEAM.
If you had told me 18 months later this is where we’d be today, I’d think you’d be nuts. GRIN, with an estimated $100M in venture capital invested in all sorts of mining infrastructure and all this goodwill and media attention – worth less than BEAM 18 months later? If you had told me that BEAM, not GRIN, would be the coin listed on Binance, I’d tell you to keep dreaming.
Well, one thing is definitely that Beam is doing a lot of marketing. I’d say it’s very likely they also paid Binance to list them although that’s just my guess and I could be wrong here. IMO, Market capitalization and price don’t reflect the projects potential. Grin was designed to have a rough start although most probably didn’t expect it to be this rough.
I can only speak for myself. As a miner, mining is a business. It’s about profits. It’s like that for every miner, every coin, every project. Miners are in it for one reason and one reason alone – to make money. It is a business, simply as that.
I don’t mine GRIN anymore because it simply isn’t profitable to mine.
I may mine GRIN at a loss if I feel like GRIN might go up later – but what’s the point if I can simply buy GRIN at an exchange. No need to mine it.
GRIN’s price has been going down for…gosh, an entire year now? Why would I want to invest in a coin that is worth less almost every week. Investors don’t invest in a coin that just goes down every week.
The community around GRIN has taken a “if you don’t like GRIN, go find another coin” attitude towards anyone that disagrees with them. Personally, the vibe I get is that (my opinion only) the “thought leaders” in the community are anti-greed, anti-corporate, anti-making-money, snobish, i-am-smarter-than-you, we-dont-need-exchanges-they-will-come-to-us, my-way-or-the-highway purists. Don’t like it? Leave. We don’t need you. Well guess what, people listened.
There’s no business appeal of GRIN. Maybe that’s what GRIN’s founders wanted. But IMO, that’s also GRIN went from $10 to $0.49 in 18 months. They wanted to start out like Bitcoin thinking that since (arguably, maybe) this approach worked for Bitcoin, it’ll work for GRIN. But guess what? It’s not 2009. Bitcoin was the only game in town. Now, there are lots of other projects that are far more promising than GRIN. My sense is that the perceived attitude has been “Anyone who wants to make money on GRIN is a pump-and-dump greedy corporate sellout.” Well, guess what? Most of the people in the crypto community are in it, at least partially, for profits. Many investors stopped caring. But that’s OK, GRIN doesn’t care about those people anyways.
Look, this is just my opinion. I’m sure everyone else on the GRIN discord would probably disagree with me. I can only speak for myself but since you asked, I explained. Good luck.
Thanks @ken19983. I echo some of those same sentiments. I think it’s been difficult for many to realize it’s not 2009 anymore, and purely having what’s believed to be “better” technology doesn’t mean we don’t need to focus on users. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
You’re welcome @david. You’re pretty well known and have a lot of credibility in the GRIN community so I appreciate you chiming in and giving your opinion as well.
I want to touch on the whole “my way or highway” attitude from many of the “purists” I see on the forum/discord/telegram. You’ll often see responses like this one:
“I would avoid using the same rhetoric that’s used to push many shitcoins. There is no expectation of profit in buying Grin.”
Uh, “no expectation of profit in buying Grin” ? Wow. This response neatly summarizes the attitude of the “purists” and why GRIN has fallen behind. Basically, if you want to make money on GRIN, go away. You’re not welcome here.
Well – you got your wish, buddy! There are fewer and fewer people who care about GRIN. Anyone who is interested in making money on GRIN whether it’s mining it or HODL’ing it hoping it will go up in the future are leaving (or have left). In a few years (maybe sooner), the only people left are the handful of “purists” talking about how they won, got rid of the shitcoin/lambo crowd – and that GRIN is “pure” and uncorrupted by corporate greed. Yes, you won. Congrats. All 10 of you that are still left.
So you would prefer if developers shilled the coin and tweeted that buying grin is going to bring profits?
Profits? What profits? Shilling? Where have you seen Shilling?
GRIN has basically fallen every week for over a year. GRIN started out at $10 and has fallen to $0.49 over a 18 month period. If that is a result of “shilling”, then please oh please stop the shilling.
Grin’s emissions schedule is 1 grin per second. This alone has a consequence that the price will fall during the first year. If anyone said it won’t, then it would just be lying to you or the community and we don’t want that, right?
If you bought some Grin you can either spend it or HODL. Grin becomes a viable option for HODLing only after a few years due to the linear emission. You can also swap from a different coin to Grin just for a single purchase to get better anonymity - there’s no reason why this couldn’t be done today.
So basically, don’t buy GRIN until 2040? Got it. I think most people didn’t understand that part when they first started mining or investing in GRIN.
If you HODL GRIN now or mine it now, you are GUARANTEED to lose money. So yes, agreed, investors and miners should never have gotten involved with GRIN. Should have never mined it or bought it or owned it at all. The punishment is a 90% ROI on your investment. Lesson learned.
Everyone that was interested in GRIN because they felt like there might be money to be made has left. That is why BEAM is worth more today than GRIN – as per my original post. It all makes sense now.
GRIN is not a viable investment. You should not mine it. You should not own it. You have to wait till 2040 or later to do that. If you want privacy, you can just use BEAM. You don’t need to use GRIN.
Check back in around 2040 when the GRIN emission schedule is more reasonable.
Like I said, great way to get adoption. Drive all investors away. Drive all miners away. Nice.
Yes, thanks for sharing your viewpoint ken.
we definitely need to define the lines more and urgently.
We are losing developers. Almost half the resources in the past few months has been used to develop something that is not urgent at all, payment channel, at the cost of security and good reason since there is absolutely no review of it from the broader blockchain space. everyone (almost) has left grin, and the coin has been controlled sometimes as managing a research project or a fun toy for some council members (payment channelis the perfect exampe for me). Atomic swp would be far much more desirable as it is something we know perfectly how to do, has been started, and could bring bitcoiners having fun with grin, yet each time i mentioned this it was like speaking in deaf ears.
I think a lot of choices concerning tx methods have moved in the good direction lately, and i am still hopeful for a good future, but we cannot continue like we have done for the past year.
Twitter has been proposed to be managed by a remarkable community member but apparently this is considered by some of the council member as a “rape” to grin purity, whereas we can see that bitcoin has a twitter account, probably controlled by a weirdo, making a lot of people happy and liking the tweets. We are not purest than bitcoin.
90 percents of the people that were here last year left, discouraged by the sum of all events. we only have twofull times developers now if i am counting right.
I have always proposed some ideas to improve on that also, but not much responsemuch of the time. W need to step our game, and forget about this so called Purity, we are pure in a way, Grin is still unique and has been done as a cryptocurrecny should be done. a lot of tremendous quality work has beeen done in the early days by people that only used their passsion. Ignotus left, letting the coin a bit alone maybe. usability was a problem, why would eople want to ue the most dificult coin in the industry? inflation is the most dificult ever in the industry. Why would people buy or be inteerested in the coin ? How to make themfeeel involved and not having the council that decides for everything in an ivory tower ?
no, grin is not dead yet, but we have to be careful, and try to analyse clearly what works and does not work. For me it would be to abandon NRd kernels, wait for more review, and finish upthis darn atomic swap, that would be slightly more down to earth,and lurker could see at least that we care a bit about of them, and that we are not doing a peronal research project to satisfy our personal technical preferences while ignoring the reality of the world. And clearly offer twitter access to @JustAResearcher , he is just perfect for it and volunteered many time. right now grin twitter is a freaking dead robot. how then can people feel like that we make effort to inform them with a bit if humanity and consider them? Let free up the horses. we re in the same boat
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, too. I completely agree and was making the point that GRIN’s emission schedule makes it a non-starter for basically every investor out there. But if ANYONE dares challenge or question the GRIN council, the mob of GRIN purists comes and drowns you out. It’s pretty pointless to argue the point of changing the emission schedule in hopes of bringing in more investor interest and investments into GRIN development. Whether its making GRIN more attractive to developers to own so that they might start spending some of their spare time working on GRIN improvements (which helps increase the value of their GRIN investments). mining it for better security, or maybe more donations for more full time GRIN devs. For example, I am a software engineer (20+ years in the industry) with a M.S. in Comp Sci. I’ve written software for blockchain projects as a hobby. I wouldn’t mind contributing some time into GRIN dev if there was something in it for me like making my GRIN worth more $$$. But with this emission schedule, that is impossible so i’m not going to waste my time on a coin I know will be worth LESS in the near future.
It’s an understatement that things need to change soon or $0.49 per GRIN will be the yearly high (it probably will be).
One thing that @oryhp got right though. In 2040, when the GRIN emission schedule is “reasonable” and GRIN is trading at $0.01, maybe I’ll buy some GRIN at that point. Assuming, of course, that GRIN is still around. Big IF.
Thats great that you have this experience. If you are changing your mind, I guess there are plenty interesting things that could be done, for example finishing up atomic swap, and in that case we could brag in bitcoin online platform that we are the first coin (not talking about companies in fiscal paradises like beam in malta) to allow them to wash their bitcoin. You could apply for funding as anyone if that would interest you to contribute a bit for a single project, or for long term.
As I mentioned before, the emission schedule makes is a dealbreaker for me. Love the MW tech. Hate the emission schedule. And Hate the “purity test” vibe I get from the community. Sadly, I still own most of the GRIN I mined back in Jan/Feb…which is now 90% less than what I mined them for. That’s why I still stalk the boards…to see/hope/pray that the emission schedule changes. I know I’m dreaming but I pop back in every few months to see if my prayers are answered. LOL
Do you get the “purity test” from the broader community as well ? I for one think grin has been done the right way and that it can finally pay off in the middle term if good decisions are made and hype comes back. Uncertainty, but Rome was not built in one day. Wrong decisions could definitely kill grin though, so we must communicate, and take down-to-earth decisions that show some care to the community
Do you think a change in the emssion scheduled would be well perceived? Don’t you think that it would kill any chance that people takes this coin seriously, by seeing this radical economic consensus rule change? geniously asking. I am more on the side that a change would lead to a shot in the feet at this point, as it is a big part of what grin is and wants to be, but i am open to change my mind
I for one think grin has been done the right way and that it can finally pay off in the middle term if good decisions are made and hype comes back.
My impression, from reading the various GRIN discussions, is that “hype” is bad for GRIN. The community response to “hype” is that its for pump and dump coins and would be bad for GRIN. Therein lies the problem – most coins would die for some “hype” because it draws attention to a coin and is GOOD for the project and for adoption. The GRIN community, from my viewpoint, believes otherwise and does not like or want hype.
GRIN, in my opinion, was one of the most hyped coins back in early 2019. And by design, that hype is gone and probably never coming back. The “purists” in the GRIN community would probably say – GOOD RIDDANCE.