True, there is a mandatory need for trust in all centralized systems, so it is not hard to make trustless in such systems, it is impossible. Even someone could create several legit accounts on the most honest exchange and take part in wash trading out of the exchange control/knowledge itself. Small caps are easily and almost always manipulated, hotbit would not be an exception, rather the norm.
Hotbit has always been really really fake. They claim to move more coins in a day than exist - I would hope that raises red flags. Most everything in crypto is fake.
Grin’s price is going to go very, very low, like $0.10-$0.20 - I don’t know what you’re waiting for OP. It’s also likely not to come up from that level for many years if ever.
I like it because I was in the original bitcoin party, and this feels so very much like that, the community, the tech, the abstraction, it’s reminded me of how this all started and how it felt when it did. Also, you can’t really “buy in”, as the market volume on real exchanges (unlike hotbit, bitmesh and other well-known wash traders) is < 0.5 btc/day, usually less than 0.1 btc/day. Even if you try to buy $100 anywhere you’re paying 50-100% over the market to fill an order. This coin was absolutely well-designed to not enrich you at all. The way to interact with this coin is to program and to dream of utopian futures, like the original bitcoin. It is not a trader’s coin - there are so many better ways to make money in crypto. Everything you give grin (time, money, etc) is really a donation to grin.
The man in the street really has no problem with debit cards and Venmo or PayPal. There is no reason outside of some political and technological ideas for crypto to ever be massively adopted - as an economic service for the common man, it was never called for and wouldn’t be demanded. This is even more especially true for something as IT-oriented and hack-y as grin.
Grin is, like crypto was in the first place, a technological and social experiment. Best case scenario for adoption, it becomes the new monero and a dark web darling. I’m pretty sure that’s the last thing any of us would want…
Crypto is rooted in the philosophy of techno-anarcho-communism. Bitcoin was turned into a ponzi scheme over time (to be completed when Wall Street comes in with Baakt etc), and most cryptos were designed to be ponzi schemes (right down to the early adopter reward). Grin deviates very little from the pure roots of crypto political theory, and basically exists to be hard to profit from, being anti-capitalist in the extreme.
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Grin’s price is going to go very, very low, like $0.10-$0.20 - I don’t know what you’re waiting for OP. It’s also likely not to come up from that level for many years if ever.
Hmm yes let me just jump into a intentional lost by your own point of view.
It is not a trader’s coin - there are so many better ways to make money in crypto.
I disagree, the Ponzi schemes will catch fire eventually and all the stuff biult on top of it will be burned
Best case scenario for adoption, it becomes the new monero and a dark web darling. I’m pretty sure that’s the last thing any of us would want…
That’s far from the best case and it’s the first thing I want
Crypto is rooted in the philosophy of techno-anarcho-communism
While that bait does look tasty I’ll pass. Stallman types were more socailist, but it’s fairly ancap and no communism and the idea making a currency being communist is laughible.
Grin has a socialist emission schedule, no?
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By pre-ww definitions sure, it does look like silver bugs writings to my eyes.
Who would have thought you would join a club of commies in the Internets. 
The man in the street really has no problem with debit cards as long as he can use them to purchase everything he wants, and as long as the currency keeps its value. Crypto-currencies are here to protect us from censorship, surveillance, coercion, and hyperinflation. None of those things are a problem… until they are.
rolls eyes very very hard
Perhaps the schedule, but I don’t think the big picture is socialist. The emission is granted to PoW miners which is a capitalist system (mining is a capital investment).
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I was mostly trolling but this is fun so I might as well continue
Yet most capitalist mining happens in communist China where miners are able to outperform everybody else because of cheaper electricity (not directly because of more capital).
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eyes pop out of head and keep going quest.mp3
Government subsidies can unbalance a capitalist system, but that doesn’t change the nature of the system.
The way I see it, there’s little difference between anarcho-cap, anarcho-comm or libertarianism in practice, it’s sort of semantics for the same idea. With blockchains, one imagines a future where in a small town, many cars will be owned by the people, lying around the city, and the blockchain determines the rental/use of those cars by minute and hour. The so-called “uberization” of the economy. Eventually, it is possible for private ownership of most industries to be well-nigh obliterated in this future. Everything is sort of owned by everyone. Now since those with more crypto can get more resources, more time in these cars, say, then you could see this as anarcho-cap. If you focus on the erosion of personal property, you could call it anarcho-comm. If you focus on the right to secure time in the cars without censorship or external regulation, i.e. “have coins will ride”, it fulfills some libertarian dreams. Fact is, our old terms are useful in the past. This future is uncharted territory. It would be more accurate to call it the Blockchain Economy and ignore past dichotomies. I just think it looks a lot like classic Marxist theory, where basically he advocated a statist authoritarian system as a temporary step to some idyllic future, abetted by technological progress he thought, where there is freedom, no state in the traditional sense, and the people (the workers) also communally own and manage the means of production. It looks like we’re there.
In terms of current paradigms, I’m actually pretty far “right”. I’ve never fit in well to facile categorizations, like I’m sure is true for any thoughtful person. It just seems like private ownership, on which capitalism is theoretically based, is directly in jeopardy with the blockchain. Especially for Grin, I don’t see how expecting to be made a wealthy fiat capitalist from a coin specifically designed to kill all that if successful is a very logical expectation. I would think it’s akin to being in Russia in 1910. Getting rich off the revolution, not likely, becoming a big wig in the communist party, doable and potentially advantageous in the world you’re about to live in…
I bet we’re not that different, OP. Unlike others, I completely agree that political goals are terribly critical in evaluating any currency project. This is why I keeping talking about politics and economics around Grin. Grin, to me, seems far more self-conscious about this link than other cryptos, almost as much as bitcoin was self-consciously political when it started.
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The way I see it, there’s little difference between anarcho-cap, anarcho-comm
I’m sorry I don’t shoplift, harass political opponents or doxx; I believe your extremely mistaken.
An-coms are very very separate. The spitting of socialism happened 100 years ago and there were major differences between individualists and collectives then, having different understandings of the ww era only deepens that further.
They consider me a fascist “stealing their good name”(wat?) and I consider the majority of them to be lunatics even after considering that I probably saw the worse of them and the alt-right isn’t above glasslighting tacits to recruit voters for trump.
In terms of current paradigms, I’m actually pretty far “right”. I’ve never fit in well to facile categorizations, like I’m sure is true for any thoughtful person.
I’m quite sure if you read “markets not capitalism” you would agree with 99% of it making you a mutualist; your quite strange views on marx could be explained if your source on communism wasn’t reading marx but Proudhon (or maybe warren but I hear far less about them); who honestly is somewhat respectable; and not the raving loon that was “destroy family to make the state stronger” marx.
My grown son, who’s visiting, in the background says, “You’re somewhere between mutualism and fascism. I’d call it techno-mutualism.” So I guess you’re probably right 
In what world are you a facsist? How is facsism even compadible with mutualism?
Yell at him for that redefining fascism bullshit for me.
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3 days of 2.75
Anyone want the case for that being the low?
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It’s been that low for three days, so therefore that’s a reasonable price.
Eh, I’ve seen markets take months to realize something dead simple. 3 days in a drop in the bucket.
At the moment I want to blame hotbit with thier “80%” market share for making the price irrationally “sticky”, the fall to the true price may very well be very slow if they are just fielding rather dumb bots to increase volume.
How about, Capitalism with a one time infusion of jesus-socialism?
It could be like a ‘world coin mixer day’ where all the money gets evenly re-distributed before returning to capitalism as usual?