Request for Funding @Cekickafa June-September

[davidtavarez]

@oryhp

But what you did was take my comment out of context and used it to attack me around my opinion regarding previous funding requests which you seem to have a bone to pick with.

@oryhp yes, you are 100% correct, that is clearly a bone to pick for me, it is no secret that I am against of making the same mistakes, but it is nothing against you or anyone else, I am not even pointing the finger at anyone in particular, I said “we were willing to take the risk”, although me, personally, I was trying to convince the rest to reduce the risk of ending up with nothing but no one listened to me, and I still say: “we”. I repeat, I will never say it was your fault or anyone else’s, rather I would probably say that it was maybe my fault for not gathering enough solid arguments to convince the rest. But, but… I was absolutely right, no matter if the Community at large was not convinced at that time, whether some people like it or accept it or not, the objective truth is that I was right. And I don’t mind saying that all those who disregarded my warnings were wrong. I say in general, not to anyone in particular: if you were wrong 3 times in a row at least, do yourself a favor and reconsider how you make your appreciations on these topics because maybe, just maybe you are good at many things, but maybe you are not so good when it comes to software development, and project management. That is my bone and I will pick it up every time I see it

@oryhp

Again, you took my comment out of context.

I am not afraid to be wrong, if I did, if I really took your comments out of context I will apologize. But what I think is the issue here, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is that you want the writings to have a higher standard, correct? that is fair, and I don’t think anybody is against that. I want a higher standard on everything too. What I can’t understand is why it’s so hard to offer comments, make suggestions or offer help. I guess what we all want is to help Grin as much as we can, right?

I don’t want to believe you have anything against anyone here, but by cherry picking trivial things it seems like you have something personal against others, even if that’s not the case. This is just unsolicited advice, think it through.

@oryhp

Again, the community had much bigger reaction for less % increase in the post I linked.

I agree and I wasn’t against it. I think most of those comments were based on ignorance, and it’s okay not to know everything, and some others were just a reflection of personal beef.

@oryhp

I’m tired of the “shoot first ask questions later” approach you seem to resort to lately and the bickering this brings.

Since I have nothing against you and @vegycslol said something similar I will take this comment in good faith. Let’s be clear, I don’t agree, but, but, but… I’m going to read my last reactions and think about it. Maybe you are right, I don’t think so, but I have no reason not to consider the observation.

Regarding compensation (my personal opinion).

The more time I invest in Grin the more I realize that this is a very time consuming endeavor, time we spend here instead of spending it with our children, spouse, partner, family and/or friends, or just taking a break from our daily struggles; it is very unfair to do that without any kind of compensation, not even some respect. Today we have inflation and price increases in everything, let’s not ignore it, sometimes people are just afraid or ashamed to ask for what they need. Let’s have some empathy here we are all human beings. I don’t know anyone’s personal situations, but at least I can understand that these times are not easy for anyone, again, we are just human beings. What we need is to support and respect everyone who invests their time in Grin. Let’s support and protect the Community.

[Trinitron]

@stakerV It’s a judgement call. A post to bitcointalk once a month, or when there is a node update or something, makes sense. It’s connected to my opinion that biweekly is too frequent, when it starts filling the thread with an entire page of posts from groundskeeper it’s too much.

I am stating my opinion here that I don’t think groundskeeper can catalyze activity like this. I know community members feel differently, that’s why I am posting to make it known that we don’t all feel that way. Speaking for myself, I don’t believe it makes Grin look less dead to have a bunch of funded activity, it makes it look more dead.

[davidtavarez]

@Trinitron

I don’t believe it makes Grin look less dead to have a bunch of funded activity, it makes it look more dead.

Yes, that’s a very good point. I think so too. But now we are talking about something else. All these “little things” added together are the real deal, and at the end of the day and even though Grin is a decentralized project, someone has to do the work. Someone has to take the notes, organize everything that gets talked about here, keep the meeting records, write the newsletter, write the code, do research, etc., people have to actually do the work, and those people also live, eat and sleep, and have the same aspirations as anyone else.

We all want a bigger list of contributors, eventually we will get it, in the meantime the machine has to keep moving. We have to support the few of us that are left. IMHO.

[Trinitron]

@davidtavarez Nobody has to write a newsletter. Nobody had to form a community council.

I was away from grin when a lot of this stuff started, I’m still learning more all the time about the history of it, but a lot of it seems like “we want to do X!” followed by “well we should be getting paid to do X” and from the outside it’s like you guys are the ones who were asking to do it.

[davidtavarez]

@Trinitron

well we should be getting paid to do X

Yes! People should get paid! for God’s sake! if you want work for free go to Cuba or build your own commie land, good luck, mate, I support you… God…

[Trinitron]

@davidtavarez

Yes! People should get paid!

If X is a necessary function for maintenance, development, etc. then sure I totally get that.

If X is posting about Grin on social media then I don’t, being an interested member of a community is not a job. Getting paid for that kind of stuff is called shilling.

[davidtavarez]

@Trinitron

If X is posting about Grin on social media then I don’t, being an interested member of a community is not a job. Getting paid for that kind of stuff is called shilling.

No, that’s called Community Manager, and in Spain that work is being paid around € 20.000 annually, in average. Let’s say €1.500 to have a simpler number. And a work of “asistente” or assistant (taking notes and organizing meetings, writing minutes and channeling requests and all the “litle” stuff), is being paid around €1.000 also in Spain. Some sort of growth hacker is being paid around €2.500 in Spain So you have a total of €4.500 again, in Spain. Here we are talking about a mix of all of these three roles, and we are making a big deal for someone who is clearly being paid way less than the lowest rates. Give me a break, Dios!

So, you’re either being completely dishonest, or very ignorant; being ignorant is fine, but if you’re being dishonest, go find something productive to do and stop wasting my time, please.

[Anynomous]

@davidtavarez

So, you’re either being completely dishonest, or very ignorant; being ignorant is fine

Lets avoid name calling.

The way I read this conversation, there are just different views on to what extend in a decentralized project, certain tasks should be paid.

1. Let us not forget that Grin is a decentralized project, meaning that everything is donated by someone. Some people donate their money to create the funds we use, others donate their time and energy and knowledge, like most of us do here.
2. Does that mean that no one should get paid? Of-course not. Essential tasks and tasks that take up to much time and energy for most to be done on a voluntary basis, such as developing, agenda, note-keeping, - those have to be compensated to some extend. People do not need to eat and meet daily costs. That does however not mean compensation has to be top notch or market standard I mean, most of us are here because we love Grin and give some time freely. It is fine to have a job that pays “ok” if you love what you do.

In the end the keyword is simply balance. Balancing of these ideas we have as a community, balancing between idealism of having work be done voluntarily and being practical about peoples need to make ends meet. Balance in those tasks that can be done from a hobby and idealist perspective, and those that we do need to fund.

Personally, I think we have a reasonable balance as it is. Yes we pay groundkeepers, not top notch payment, not below standards either. Yes, we pay people for writing newsletters, but no, we do not pay people for actively shilling on social media. Some social media activity should be fine to pay, but that should not take to much time IMO (I know opinions might differ here). In summary, I think we more or less all agree on these two points I mentioned above. There are just some differences in where we put the balance exactly. Lets focus on what unites us, not on what divides us.

“No drama, just Grin”.

[Anynomous]

This funding request was approved at today’s CC meeting on Keybase .

[coolwhip]

Congrats @Cobragrin. Where can CC meeting notes be found? I see old ‘grin-pm’ repo hasn’t been updated in some time

[Cobragrin]

Thank you all for support. Review and updating at the moment.

GrinCC site and github