Request for Funding @Cekickafa June-September


I worked as groundskeeper, and i want to apply for the 2nd term again for this duty, if accepted. My previous progress is here.

Rate; 1500 euro for month.

Updated rate below with additional tasks.
My Tasks
Maintain Agenda and minutes.

    • Responsibilty of transcribing ,reviewing meeting notes, previous meeting notes hold on at March period since.
  • PR requests on github doc repos management.

Video Channels

  Video editing,composing and collecting materials, producing informative and eye-catching videos.

Various Ecosystem tasks

  • Exchanges,Miners ,Pools ecosystem monitor and checkings, informing Grin Community Council and do given tasks as much as i can.

What i want to do More ?

I want to make more videos about Grin matching public needs, about
anticensorhip, monetary policy , decentralised features. Since videos takes a little more time, i need to find a balance with other stuff. Youtube/ visual is extremely important for introducing the ‘‘Grin better money’’ idea and familiraze at user level.

-Create a Grin raid Army for social channels. Provide materials to share.
- Prepare some info charts for Grin features.

  • Want to Demonstrate that This is dark before Grin Dawn

Thank you all for your support ツ


Quick question: do you think you could take more responsibilities? if yes, it is fair to reconsider the rate.

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yes, i can gladly take more responsibilities if needed.

And I apologize for asking. My concern comes from the fact that sometimes there is no one in charge of things like creating a post or adding something to the wiki. It is hard when no one is responsible of doing these things.

Again, my apologies, please.

no, it is fine to communicate with each other. you are right.

To work to do, more responsibilities i can take;

  • Maintain Agenda and minutes.
  • Responsibilty of transcribing ,reviewing meeting notes, publishing official Grin newsletter (in addition to Grin Post). Previous meeting notes hold on at March period since.
  • PR requests on github doc repos management.

-More Public relations, including creating materials and arranging AMA content with GRIN contributors, convey those to cryptoworld via publishment and social channels.

  • Conveying necessary contents to potential Developer community, and entry level end user both.
    - Explore GRIN merchant adoption-stores, support and organise integration. Travel and face to face PR.
    - Organize a GRIN-Workshop for a full week ( Rest and recharge Battery) at a friendly resort area, warm up and merge face to face :). Many ideas can arise.

There will be more work to be done, i am willing to do it which will bring immediate progress and action.With additional tasks, my workload will be close to 180 h approximately including weekends. That would be my full responsibility as a single groundskeeper.
Rate 120 hour * (12.2 € / h) = 1500 € / month


Please don’t take this too personally, but I think we should keep the official newsletter on a higher standard than grin post (content, grammar etc.). Grin Post and the official newsletter target two different groups of people and, in my opinion, need to be written in a different way, both content, grammar etc.

My guess would be that given the current lack of time for all the things we want to do, the core is unlikely to have time helping here as the focus is on other things. Just something to keep in mind.

Given that nobody showed up at Amsterdam meeting, I have a feeling we’ll have a hard time getting people together:(

Am I right that this is over 100% increase? I’m guessing this was communicated with CC, it would be nice to communicate these slightly in advance since the community had all sort of complaints about a much smaller increase e.g. this case Request for Funding, @lehnberg: Jan-Mar 2020 . I don’t mind really, but it would be good to clearly state the rate increase to avoid any confusion in the public for people that might have missed this.


My content and grammers are liked by community, it has higher rich content than lehnbergs and jankies newsletters, feel free to compare. If you are so sensitive about writing ‘‘sicilio instead of scilio’’, anybody can find some grammer mistakes in other jankie and lehnbergs newsletters. Coding and merging the Grin has many bugs, grammar mistakes easily can be edited. Maybe you focus for github bugs, they are the crucial ones.
I dont belittle Lehbgergs work,he had other focus, maybe less time for grinnewsletter and social channels.
-jankie newsletter
-lehnbergs newsletter
-cekickafa newsletter

It is your guess. Exchanges listing, integrations and other stuff easily handled, core sometime helped them, sometime they integrated themselves. Your points are invalid. GRIN is opensource project AND any ecosystem player, exchanges, wallet developers, other crypto related business should be able to integrate it without core, if everybody will sit and wait for ‘‘GRIN has less man power’’, lets forget GRIN adoption?. Have you talked with core members that they cant help if any itegrations needed or is it your personal idea ?
I am decideful about pursing this idea. GRIN needs merchant adoption, stores, physcal ATM machines or web shopping plugins.

GRIN Amsterdam was spontaneous thing. @Anynomous made that effort by himself and represented the GRIN very succesfully imo. He met many Bitcoiners and made GRIN known and remember. It is your view that it isnt succesful, people can join if they have time. I will organise it, i am decideful about that too. I will pay some expenses even from my pocket. But i will do it, even 1 person joins.

There is no increase.
@defistaker and jankie were 2 groundskeeper. They were each request funding separately, sum is above 2000 euro. I am applying instead of both them. Nothing is communicated with CC, again your personal guessing.
Where is the increase ?
Jankie requested for 56 hour work X 21 $ . Mine is close to 180 hour x 12.5 $ .21 versus 12.5 half of jankies wage price. My hourly wage is half of jankie.
Why didnt you objected to jankies rate ?

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Just to be clear, we asked @Cobragrin to take on more tasks since @NewJack777 has been missing in action for quite long now.So, this increase is upon the request of the CC.
I think @Cobragrin did great with the newsletters, it appeals to the wider community and is effective IMO.
I do agree with @phyro that it would be good to keep two newsletter around since they are targeting a different audience.

Regarding the funding request, it makes sense that if @Cobragrin is taking on more tasks he should get paid more. To be honest, I overlooked that it was a 220% increase from before, since ground-keepers only got paid 1000$/month.
@Cobragrin Since this is something both me and @davidtavarez overlooked, we have to discuss this with the other CC members.

Just voicing my own opinion below:
I feel like an increase of 150%, so 1500$ should be enough to cover the most essential tasks, such as note keeping, that @NewJack777 was doing before. It does mean you have to drop some of the tasks of your very impressive task list, otherwise it would be way to much work for the pay you receive.
We have to discuss this a bit among the CC members, see what everyone thinks is about right in the workload that you should take on.

Can you give an example?

So what?! @Cobragrin is offering to do the work done by two people before.

Let me remind you that we were willing to lose tens of thousands before and we did. and you said nothing, in fact you were willing to take the risk, but somehow this is now a “major” increase…

What the fuck is wrong?! honestly, what the fuck?

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The only thing that’s wtf is your attitude lately, seems like you can’t even state your own opinion (with some valid questions imo) without getting bazookas. Such attitude makes zero sense. I don’t care how much you pay to who, but respond with exact examples so that it’s easier to answer. Did you have Jasper in mind? If yes then sure, the possibility of Jasper staying was imo worth that money, even if it didn’t pay off in the end, he was just that knowledgeable. I agree with him that the person writing the news should have a very high grammar skills because grammar mistakes makes the post look amateurish even if the writer put in a lot of effort, it’s just off-putting - note that i’m not saying anything about the payment here, just the content.

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Let me put you in context. You have a job that no one is willing to do, a job that could be boring and that you could easily spend more time on than expected. A job that has already been done by two people. A job that keeps the Community informed. A job that is clearly necessary to keep Grin from looking dead.

Now, someone is willing to help by investing their time in doing work that again, no one else is willing to do, and here we are making a big deal out of such an insignificant thing.

What doesn’t make sense is, first, to put a price on someone’s time, and second, to make such a fuss over so little.

Yes, I also have in mind Atomic Swaps, sitting there since May 20th 2021, and also the risk taken on mwixnet which is going in the same direction.

The truth is that it did not pay.

How can someone tell me that it’s okay to lose around 100k on nothing, and at the same time, make a big deal over what? 300 euros or something like that? The natural reaction is to ask: what the fuck is going on here? I really do not think that @oryhp is taking this personal against @Cobragrin I honestly believe that @oryhp wants the best for Grin. What I can not understand how and why this is such a big deal.

Yeah, and you know how we solve it? The right way, of course? By letting people do it, and giving them feedback and guiding them, and letting people grow. That’s how you lead, that’s how you build. That’s how you end up with a win-win situation.

We are all losing when we make things more difficult for the few who are willing to invest their time in Grin.


I don’t have a position for or against this funding request. I’m not clear if I am even supposed to or not.

I do have some opinions on the role of “groundskeeper” as I see it and it’s stated duties, these are not directed solely at you Cobragrin but at the role itself.

  • On name alone I would assume this position is maybe 1/3 of a full time commitment.

  • Organizing agenda, meetings, note taking, etc. seems like it would be the primary and most important function of the role. (Although honestly I would’ve expected a CC member to volunteer to do it)

  • I enjoy grin post but I think monthly would suffice, there really isn’t that much news to go around and anyone who actually wishes to keep up with developments can easily follow the forum and keybase directly. I actually don’t think biweekly updates to the bitcoin talk are helpful when it starts to totally dominate that thread.

  • I personally doubt funding can ever create the kind of video content that will achieve the goal. That has to happen organically and be created because it is actually interesting and not driven by promotion.

  • Exhanges, miners, pools… There’s nothing here: Gate doesn’t care, TO already does everything right, Chinese miners will do what’s most convenient for them. The best thing that’s happened on this front, a new pool with memo support to break the monopoly on it, wouldn’t even have received CC support due to puritanism. In fact I think the CC would’ve actively advocated against it.

  • Grin social media army, this would borderline compromise the integrity of our community. You can’t force this stuff or it’s disingenuous.

I think there is a valuable role here, I think you are the right person for it right now, I think primary headline duties are the most important and clearly defined part of it. I do not think 180 hours makes sense at all. I wondered why we would really need two of them in the first place.

  • Grinnews letter, original twitter account was offline more than year, that many people think there is no development and GRIN is dead.

  • I revived the newsletter and social accounts to show there is development about GRIN. And people joining day by day, getting interested.

  • Bitcointalk page looked empty, I message there regularly. It is less than 100 page, although many years passed. It looks dead also.

  • I will open a telegram channel and share content there, anybody can take my materials and share it. Nobody is forcing anybody.

What is wrong with more people getting interested with GRIN ? It is not an CC or GRINCC issue. That is a decentralized project.


Just to clarify, I think we again had a typical example of “communication is key”.
Within the CC we discussed that we wanted @Cobragrin to take on more, what we failed to do was to specify what we wanted him to take on exactly, and how much hours. Apparently within the CC we had different ideas about how much @Cobragrin would increase his workload, neither did we specify this when we asked him to do more. Lets learn our lesson and take better care next time in our communications.
For now, @Cobragrin agreed to work 150% of his current working hours, he will drop some time consuming tasks such as making videos.

“No drama, just Grin”.

@Cobragrin Can you modify your task list in the original post, or post an updated task list here? I think once we have that, we can agree to it, unless someone objects.

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Edited in this post.

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I had carried the groundskeeper task for several terms, so I think I should share my thoughts here.
In my working period, the most requested task from community was being active on social channels and raise awareness of Grin. It is the reason I left Groundskeeper task, I am not an active person on social media, I think I cannot fulfill the job against community’s expectations.

When groundskeeper task introduced, it was rated 1000 Euro/ month with close to 50 working hours so hourly rate was approximately 20 Euro/hour. If someone is asking at 12 Euro/hour for the same job, it is not a price hike but a price reduction.

I find it kind of funny to criticize sending update posts to bitcointalk because I clearly remember Tromp asked me about posting the grin newsletter to bitcointalk. I did not have an account there so I opened one just solely for that purpose. If @cobragrin stopped posting updates there I am sure someone else will come two weeks later and ask why he is not posting at bitcointalk. It is clear thar not everyone in the community can be satisfied at the same time.

In almost every meeting I attended, discussion comes to a point that we need more man power and more developers on board. To attract more developers we need to show that Grin is not a dead project and to do that social media needs to be active. Ideal scenario is community feed itself and activity is formed naturally but we are not there yet. We need someone to catalyze activity, it is as simple as that.
It just does not make sense to me to diminish effort of someone doing good work. (Or do we have a secret agenda to keep low and accumulate more Grin at low price for a higher profit :blush:)


This :point_up:

Let’s find a solution to improve what is needed. It’s not that hard to contact someone here and offer help and/or feedback. It is a fantasy that a grammatical error affects Grin more than a repo with a single developer and it is easier to fix the former than the latter.


First, I’d like to apologize to @CobraGrin for bringing so much attention to his thread, this will be my last comment here.

My reply won’t focus on the comments around grammar and other things because I see a bigger issue in this thread.

I’m asking myself the same question. I had no idea saying an explicit mention of a 100+% increase would blow up to the level it has.

You do realize I’ve written this don’t you? This clearly states I’m not saying what should/shouldn’t be paid, I was merely of the opinion that a 100+% increase should be stated more explicitly so that people who might not be following that closely don’t miss it. From @Anynomous’s comment, it seems to have been missed which should only put more ground to my point. I also gave an example of an occurrence in the past where the community had issues with an increase much less than what was in this request to back up my reasoning why it might be a good idea.

But what you did was take my comment out of context and used it to attack me around my opinion regarding previous funding requests which you seem to have a bone to pick with. I’ve said many times, I can give my opinion on any proposal that was funded and I’d prefer to do it publicly, but this thread is not the right place for this. I can’t guarantee we’d agree on what was done and whether it was the right thing to do, but I can at least give it a somewhat reasonable shot at logic at that time, regardless of what the outcome was.

Again, you took my comment out of context.

Again, the community had much bigger reaction for less % increase in the post I linked.

It wasn’t supposed to be a big deal. The funding request was public, I saw something I thought would be better if made more visible and made it so.

These conflict fostering comments have no place in a civil discourse. They are anything but a good way to resolve potential conflicts. I’m tired of the “shoot first ask questions later” approach you seem to resort to lately and the bickering this brings. From these recent events, I hope I’ve learned my lesson not to get involved in things I don’t really need to as it too often leads to hours wasted in replies. These don’t improve the conversation, much less solve anything.


:+1: ‘‘Less drama, more work .’’