Coinex delists Grin

But you can’t withdraw.

They didnt allow withdrawal since 2 years. They let you trade fake paper trading GRIN. And people buy coins there and think they hold real GRIN, offset the real demand.

Coinex is not the only one exchange at this (you trade GRIN, but dont withdraw) paper fake GRIN trading game.
If you are delisting a coin, you let people withdraw… Never trust an exchange, especially not upgrading wallet for years.

’‘Not your KEYS, not your COINS’'

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This can be easily applied to any other asset/coin, coinex or grin are no special, this is why I try to keep most of the assets in the wallet and only trade with the 10-20%.

But I don’t think it’s Coinex to blame here…
When your project looks like this and there’s no community, it’s no surprise it’s being delisted:

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this looks really bad and reminds me a lot of the failed stack exchange Area 51 community effort by @renzokuken.
Maybe this slow decline of Grin is not tied to Grin exclusively. Lately the crypto-space as a whole is being perceived in the public discussion more and more as scam-infested and a “ponzi”-scheme.
For example see:

The whole space seems to be running on unbacked Tether. Since Grin is fair it is really hard to make money on it. Grifters and Scammers avoid it. Moonboys avoid it. Reputable Devs avoid it since its still Crypto. There may just not be that many people that are interested in Grins goals as stated in grin.mw.
Its sad, but thats the world we live in.

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There has always been a big problem with Grin’s trading experience. Two-way transactions are a drawback and cause a lot of trouble for both sides of the transaction. If this cannot be changed, the future is in doubt. Can we find a way to change the trading method to a one-way transaction like BTC?

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There are some papers describing different ideas of how you could have non-interactive transactions but i haven’t read them so i can’t comment on their solutions. I prefer having interactive transactions though and i believe ux can be vastly improved, especially if we adopt the contract/sign/sign scheme. Such scheme would also make it easier to explain safe-cancel and (probably) make it easier for exchanges to integrate grin

You’re right, the community is much smaller than it was and it seems easier to give up than ever before. But it’s also much more calm atmosphere to develop software than it was years ago because there’s no constant pressure and unnecessary drama taking everyone’s precious time. I really don’t see non-interactive transactions as being a good fit for Grin. Interactivity does have its challenges that we need to overcome, but having only these possible also adds more unique features to Grin. Giving up on Grin because we live in an interactive-only configuration is similar to giving up inventing a plane because we have gravity. Interactivity is a part of the physics in Grin/MW world, we just have to find solutions inside this. There’s no doubt non-interactive transactions would make it much easier to get listed on exchanges because they’re a magnitude easier to integrate, but the downsides, in my opinion, outweigh the benefits. I’d rather see Grin try to be the best it can and preserve its unique position than to take the easy route and go in the same direction as everyone else while losing many good properties. Let’s not forget we’re not alone in thinking interactivity is interesting [1]. Grin, like any other project, can fail, but if we do, let’s at least try to tackle the hard problems and keep the system great. If we lose the unique properties, we’re just delaying a lost war. Any one of you could help contribute in many ways. It doesn’t have to be development, just be active in the community, ask questions, make art or whatever you’re good at or want to practice and stay kind to each other.

[1] https://twitter.com/pwuille/status/1475173933334859781

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There are still plenty of other exchanges to trade Grin:

The problem with not being able to withdraw is largely not Grin specific. It has to do with the regulation of privacy-coins. IMO Grin should not even be on that list since it is privacy preserving and not hiding the sender much. But anyhow, that is why Grin and other coins labeled as privacy-coins cannot be deposited or withdrawn on many exchanges that follow EU regulations.

Regarding the community, I agree with @oryhp. The community might be small, but there is much less drama which means those involved in the project can focus their energy on output instead of losing energy on drama :grin:. I would however love to see more people get active in this community.

I agree, I think that isn’t helping at all. Now, in the other hand, the experience dealing with exchanges is bad; @mokhtar have been constantly contacting them, sometimes their teams had questions and the answers were given and support offered, and still they don’t do anything. What else we can do? Pay to get listed as some of them indirectly requested?

Only in one occasion an exchange expressed negatively about the interactivity, so I would call this a myth. Interactivity is not *the* problem.

We need a standardized API, write extensive documentation, and we need to start writing tools on top of Grin, like a payment gateway, like plug-and-play solutions… in conclusion: we need more man-power.

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We’re not even 100 people here. The miners are busy filling their pockets. but we are a bunch of people. We are quite depressed. We are about to run out. but we believe…. We wait patiently.

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Seen these words on the graves of too many shitcoins over the years.

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David burkett betrayed this community. We lose believers every day. I have been dealing with and defending Grin for about 2 years. Unfortunately, I can no longer convince people of Grin.

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No, he did not. David Burkett has done a lot for Grin. If he decides to take a longer pause or decides to move on to other projects, that’s up to him and people should respect his choice. There were plenty of people that contributed to Grin and no longer do so. We shouldn’t be talking bad about them just because they moved to other projects. People can take a pause for years and then come back, in fact it’s sometimes healthy to do so.

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Burkett defending Grin more than 5 years with his contributions. i think you have a misunderstanding.

Coinex delisting has no effect on Grin, on the contrary people cant withdraw there. Now they will learn and use other active exchanges.

Coinex was offsetting the real demand for GRIN coins.

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The problem is that yes he did a lot for grin but he did a lot for David in this community. Where would David be today without Grin’s unique abilities? David now works for LTC, and we can see together that most of his work has come from Grin.

Pretty much everyone that contributed to Grin contributed to some other project in the past where they learned a lot of skills that were transferable and that’s ok. I don’t understand what you mean with “most of his work has come from Grin”. He probably reused a lot of the code he himself wrote for Grin++ along with new one from his noninteractive txs research.

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about.

Wrong, very wrong.

When and where will be the next Grin meetup in Turkey?

I think it’s quite the opposite, as far as I remember David literally saved Grins ass when the severe inflation-bug appeared.

No one is obliged to contribute to open source. The concept of “betrayal” generally doesn’t apply to this space.

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For those who forget easily…

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