The privacy, and all the implied consequences; selling drugs online, dodging taxes, and being unpopular in an era where platforms have damaged parts of the internets freedom and other unpopular positions.
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I’m not clear if you’re agreeing with me, or taking issue with my opinion. All the points you make regarding selling drugs online, dodging taxes, dark markets, and boom and bust financial ruin, that is the unsalvageable association that the brand Bitcoin has. What am I talking about? What is a brand? It is a cognitive reflex of ideas. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is unsalvageable out there.
Regarding privacy: people do not live privately anymore and they don’t care. I think that’s axiomatic.
As far as the word cryptocurrencies or anything related to Bitcoin, we need to stay as far away from this as possible if we are to escape this market. We do not belong here. We belong in the world. We will dress accordingly.
Grin is not taking over Bitcoin. Bitcoin missed the mark. It tried, and it will live on–as the mutation it has become; “digital gold” or whatever “Store of Value.” But that was not the mission. The mission was lost on the way to the moon.
Bitcoin was the first. It lit the path. Grin will show us the way.
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All the points you make regarding selling drugs online, dodging taxes, dark markets, and boom and bust financial ruin, that is the unsalvageable association that the brand Bitcoin has
This is a mission statement not a brand message
Its for building a Chesterton fence Wikipedia:Chesterton's fence - Wikipedia
Everyone else is wrong about privacy being unimportant, this is a statement that the common belief that the culture we are making now is successful and that our success with age will be the validity for the unpopular opinions held during the making of it. i.e. the federalists were wrong the bill of rights was a good idea, if imperfect.
That means being understood, crystal clearly, no weird sentence structures of the 2nd amendment that fell out use in all but legalese so we have debates about “common sense gun control” and the jim crow thing.
At the moment we here are for hard-privacy, will it be that way in 3 years if grin grows 1000x users? Or will a weak defence of privacy be understood be weak-privacy, where we are ok with the state finding a flaw to “hunt terrorists” so the devs with a bit of cycling in and out don’t fix it as quickly,
I’m FOR tax dodging, the speculation, and the “terrorists” having privacy; the “brand” can go fuck itself, markets are for smart people who put their money where their mouth is, stupid people’s beliefs are “marketability” is not a concern of mine.
With respect, sincerely, I don’t think you understand branding at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
Do you want to reach people? Or is Grin just headed into the future without a way to connect with people? This project dies if it does not reach the world. It cannot survive in this market. We have no Moon Lambo to give. Do you understand all of our problems? I will tell you right now that I was one of the more vocal critics of Grin. And yet, here I am.
You carry this attitude, and you alienate the population you want to impact. Because you do not know how to communicate with them. So we’ll be doing this forever until somebody figures it out. That is Grin.
I agree with you. I said that people don’t care. Normal people, that we have to reach if we are to become what we are intended for. Try selling privacy to an addict who shares their entire life at every given moment. I understand you think this mission statement is not part of the brand. That is where we disagree. But–you are right. It is a core tenet. There is no question.
I said that they don’t understand what they are giving away. We have to teach them. Grin needs teachers and the brand plays an essential role in how we communicate these values, so they resonate with people. Or we are locked into this market, which Grin is not intend for, and we die. The speculators have no loyalty to us, and sooner or later they’re going to leave us for the wealth creation they can get somewhere else.
Grin is not for trading. It’s meant to use. That is what we have to solve. You don’t see how this is a part of that, and that is why I came. I want people to use Grin. And I want it to be successful. All we need is just one of these to work to bring the whole thing down. I am with you. And I work with you. And we will find the way.
I don’t think this is about branding. Grin just like all coins will grow rapidly, such is the nature of capitalism. I’m worried about the culture being watered down, cypherpunks have a history of bitrot and doubling userbase every 3 month puts allot of strain on the culture.
I wish to reinforce the culture, the growth will follow.
Honesty to a fault like when I give links to assassination politics to someone doubting something tiny like drug markets existing is just something i do.
Maybe I’m wildly optimistic in that regard, but I made my leap of faith years ago.
Grin is not for trading. It’s meant to use
Speculation is a nessery step in this process. All money is a ponzi scheme thats not suppose to end, adding myself to every layer of the pyramid means I help define when it ends.
“The relation between the controller and the controlled is reciprocal. The scientist in the laboratory, studying the behavior of a pigeon, designs contingencies and observes their effects. His apparatus exerts a conspicuous control on the pigeon, but we must not overlook the control exerted by the pigeon. The behavior of the pigeon has determined the design of the apparatus and the procedures in which it is used. Some such reciprocal control is characteristic of all science. As Francis Bacon put it, nature to be commanded must be obeyed. The scientist who designs a cyclotron is under the control of the particles he is studying. The behavior with which a parent controls his child, either aversively or through positive reinforcement, is shaped and maintained by the child’s responses. A psychotherapist changes the behavior of his patient in ways which have been shaped and maintained by his success in changing that behavior. A government or religion prescribes and imposes sanctions selected by their effectiveness in controlling citizen or communicant. An employer induces his employees to work industriously and carefully with wage systems determined by their effects on behavior. The classroom practices of the teacher are shaped and maintained by the effects on his students. In a very real sense, then, the slave controls the slave driver, the child the parent, the patient the therapist, the citizen the government, the communicant the priest, the employee the employer, and the student the teacher.”
If you wish to change capitalism away from the statist currency, your going to need to play by the rules of the game that sets the value of currencies relative to each other; and its not a game for normal people. Its a brutal harsh one, and radical honesty appeals to me and I’m the type who plays the game.
There is an array of issues on the horizon that build off of each other in a cascading effect. We modeled out speculation, at least it was severely discouraged. I know you know. Everybody does. And they hand waive. I will prepare.
I didn’t read this. I checked for tone. I’ll read it after I misfire. We’re going to get along. And—i am building a home for designers at Grin. We need to feel welcome here. The revolution is for all of us. And none of us are sitting this out.
I will not violate your concerns. I will be mindful of all of them as I learn. And we will clash. We should. Because that’s where the answers are. And that is how I got here; by fighting you.
The people speculating on Grin are funds who see a black swan, and speculators following the hype. The funds will stay with us. The speculators will not. And then we will be in for it. Unless we create some serious magic.
I see Grin clearly. It is the New World currency system in its infancy. It took a long time to get past the emission model, but I discovered its secrets.
People don’t have the time that I do to consider these things or the mental fortitude to understand. We need to fix that. The conversation about our emission model will become a memetic weapon that will harm us if this vision does not get properly communicated. And In a way that makes people feel. It is a mass of Rust. We will make it shine. There is so much going on behind that cute little face, and it has a story to tell.
Not everyone will spend 95 days trying to get it. Go look at my advocacy on Reddit. I am trying. And I want to learn. I want to know your vision. So we can utilize it. Majorly. I got pieces of it. And that was enough. We need to compose it. Eloquently. We need to model our anthem.
This is the second attempt at the mission. And it looks deranged if you can’t see it. It’s inside the emission model that’s stumping everyone, and it will invite a fork. They will have nothing. The vision is here! They are another altcoin splitting hashpower as it fades into obscurity. Grin is innovating. It bucked the trend. The Titanic had great vision too…
Grin is the most bold and daring project in the space. Nothing even comes close. It is in a class of its own. And we need to accomplish distinguishing it and lifting Grin above everything else.
I am committed. That is a wild departure from where I came from. I hope you can appreciate that, and we can become friends. Because I’m not leaving. And you will have to duel with me.
There is another side to this, Monkyyy. It takes the same kind of level of expertise. And the wizards of the craft are coming to Grin.
We cannot have the ego-driven engineering culture that plagues tech at Grin. Please. We will not harm your baby. And you should be protective. You worked you ass off to create this machine. And we owe you everything for it. I lambasted all of you. And I was wrong.
I will continue to work on anybody that I lose to the idea that this is an environment that is dominated by engineers who see design as a service. A wallet is not going to solve anything. The experience is completely broken. An entirely new experience is necessary.
Grin is the first of its kind. We can be as innovative with our design as we are with our choice of economics. But not without the best people. Grin needs to be a home for them too.
Grin will become a black hole for the da Vinci’s of our time making Colgate ads at Chiat. It will become a vortex for visionary designers the same way it is for tech talent. We’ll get everyone grinning after work. There is not a more noble cause.
Embrace us. Because you don’t have a choice. Design has come early for Grin.
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I understand. And, we will make it work. Have some faith in me. I’ve come a long way to be here.
The people speculating on Grin are funds who see a black swan, and speculators following the hype. The funds will stay with us. The speculators will not
I’m a speculator first and foremost, while a fair bit of the economy is shitcoiners, thats not the full story.
I’m not going anywhere even if I’m moving my money wildly.
People don’t have the time that I do to consider these things or the mental fortitude to understand. We need to fix that.
Thats done thru ease of use and price. The devs are working on ease of use, maybe a touch slowly, but wallet 713 has public addresses and messaging, presumably thats open source enough it will become a standard and guis and phone wallets will copy it.
As for price, just trust the market to reward good ideas.
And it looks deranged if you can’t see it. It’s inside the emission model that’s stumping everyone, and it will invite a fork.
Tromps coin emission model was a mistake, but its ultimately a minor issue.
I however have quite a different philosophy from the standard industrialist and the never ending factions that it tends to make https://twitter.com/fribergcs/status/635871278046445568?lang=en
We cannot have the ego-driven engineering culture that plagues tech at Grin.
Ego driven cultures aren’t plagues.
Arrogance is a virtue.
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I have a lot of learning to do. And I need it. I need it for what I do. Which Is the thing that started this conversation, and the thing you’re talking about too.
Design is multidimensional. It’s everythjng holistic of the product. We have to have an experience. A wallet has been done.
I agree with @0xb100d that cryptocurrencies will look nothing like they do in 10 years. In 20 years They will be unrecognizable from the proto garbage we have now. It isn’t working.
Open a private tab in MEW. What do you see? A 12 page scrim that says “don’t use me.” Consider its role during peak Ponzi.
We have a long way to go, my friend, and we need to work together. We want the best people here to help us. And I will make it so.
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I think that was Igno’s decision. Anyway, I haven’t read any better suggestion in Emission rate of Grin
The emission model is why I thought this was a death march.
The numbers are meaningless. The power of the message inside will see us through. It is there, we will bring it out on Grin’s face. It’s like a packed cannon for the wall, which we are blowing through. When we are ready. We will have that capability. I wish to make it so.
Our emission model is our anthem. And it is a mighty force.
And to your point about arrogance being a virtue. That is why I came. You hand waive because you know. And—we have to be ready if any of these issues materialize. We have to model as if they will. And by doing that, we distinguish ourselves in this market. And we will survive here and flourish.
We will crush any and all obstacles if we work together and synchronize. The wheels of insurection machine are turning. Nothing can stop what you have begun. Grin is the face of the future. And soon everybody will know.
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I believe ideally the miner reward should be inversely proportional to the user base; how the fuck you do that is beyond me, but bitcoins 4 year halfing time did not match the 3 month user doubling growth rate. And so we got miner racing.
However I don’t believe you guys will accept a 3 months halving period, based on my take of the markets and crossing my fingers I’m right about something so hard to predict; so I didn’t argue the point much calling it quits on that thread months ago.
Roughly how many of the dev team is on board with my basic premise that a mission statement is a “Chesterton fence” not a marketing position?
Prehaphs I should give up on this thread?
No. Never give up. That is failure. Keep fighting for your position. This is how we arrive at our answer. Trust me. You are not wrong. And there are more things to consider. That’s all. But you are correct. This is my point. We need to work together. Let’s stop talking about marketing and start using the word teaching.
Again,
Technology is just a tool. In terms of getting the kids working together and motivating them, the teacher is the most important. - Bill Gates
The are other chances to make fences. I’ve offered my help to edit grinoire, I could try to get a few devs on board on writing a different document they sign off on. etc.
I pick and choose my battles… when I remember to.
I’m technically an outsider being an ancap vs the cypherpucks, and I don’t do fancy math or correctness focused code which is what they are very much focused on.
Your ideas are great, and you have no clue what the collision of our minds can produce. That is the beauty of the process. We are foreign elements, but are goals are the same.
Point me to this “grinoire.”
I’ll ping you and we can do a voice chat with a doc. We don’t need anybody. This is a meritocracy. If we do good work, it speaks for itself. If you want to make a mark, then work with me. I’ve got my own little corner. And we need your insight too!
Point me to this “grinoire.”
@0xb100d book; he’s the guy who made the winning logo and runs the shop. He’s looking to compile a bunch of hard to find sources into a physical book that funds the dev team. It however is not close to being finished
I’ll ping you and we can do a voice chat with a doc. We don’t need anybody.
Again I’m an sorta an outsider by being more extreme then the dev team, and they write the code that everyones so meritocratic about.
There is revolutionary fire in that little face like I have never felt. @0xb100d Brought me here. I have his views, and I intend to get a lot more. I need your layer. It matters. If you sit in on these conversations, then your voice will come through the end result.
Grin is for everybody. But that’s not how we’re going to get there. We have to have a strategy. And it is baked in. We are not doing marketing here. We are doing something else. Marketing is for marketers. I am not that. Come to the table.