I tested out https://keet.io for iOS today with a friend. Really good! When it first came out, it was terrible. Seems like a lot of improvements have been made.
The Keet app is not open source yet, but I believe all of the underlying libraries are. (I think they plan to eventually open source the app too)
Maybe there is a future for p2p messaging after all. Of course it goes without saying that it could be used to message slatepacks to and fro.
Test it out on your preferred platform and see what you think!
As I understand it: What makes Venmo and others like CashApp successful?:
A contact book and user IDs. When joining Venmo you can import your contacts and get your own Venmo ID. Not something I would recommend for Grin to do, but instead we could use integration with Nostr, you can import people their Nostr IDs. Also, nothing is stopping users from sharing QR codes with a payment request or offering to pay a contract via other media such as Signal. That is basically what I do with a local payment APP in my country for easy bill splitting. This is done via sharing a link/IRI that goes to a central server which triggers opening of the Venmo APP. Perhaps we can use the deeplink-system that allows opening of a wallet APP from a Grin QR payment request qr code. Using depplinks should trigger opening of the wallet APP independent from which media channel is used since the URI/IRI as link or as QR-code triggers the opening of the wallet AP via the browser.
Payment requests & Payment offers and bill splitting. I see this matches quite nicely with terminology from contract flow payments. Splitting of a bill to keep track of who paid a ticket and who did not might require a bit of extra wrapper metadata which touches on many discussion we had on putting slatepacks in an optional wrappers that can contain extra metadata. By including some extra metadata like payment request ID and user ID, it should be very easy to keep track of transactions that belong to a single split bill. As long as the content is encrypted for the receiver, their should be no information leakage when including extra metadata.
Exchange integration? Topping up and easy on an off ramping of Grin might be what makes Venmo easy. Not sure if this is possible, it is not something we can direct but who knows, maybe TO is interested or Gate if we have a good wallet to support it.
International payments. Venmo is from PayPal and such allows easy micropayments internationally although they take 0-3% fee on those payments via Venmo 0-5% for PayPall international payments. Grin does not have that problem at al, so potentially would be better as long as you keep your Grin as Grin.
Mass adoption and acceptance⌠and that is something not so easy achieve. Even with the best designed APP and with exchange integration, the main bottleneck of any crypto currency is that not many people are willing to accept it. But then again, perhaps a great wallet APP might speed up adoption considerably.
@trab Anything I missed or got wrong? I based the information on what I could find out about Venmo online, I never used the APP.
Can anyone check how split bills work? I scanned a few online Venmo example QR codes, they only contain user IDâs, but I want to know what else they might include, such as amount in a split bill request, perhaps a request ID etc.
The biggest question remains if any developer is interested in implementing some or all of such features in their wallet. We can envision, plan, support as CC and as community, but only developers have the power to make visions a reality @i1skn@davidtavarez@ardocrat, does this anyway align with what you vision is for the wallets you work on for now or in the future?
I actually donât consider this necessary btw. Iâve used these apps hundreds of times and never used that feature. We just use the calculator app on the phone to split a bill
I wouldnât recommend that either. Most of the time I just type in a phone number or scan a QR code. No need for contact upload at all.
Nostr also allows for more simple usernames in addition to the long pubkeys.
Excellent idea. Cake Wallet has centralized exchanges integrated right into their wallet for that purpose. Kind of nice. But these exchanges might be limited in terms of countries they operate in. Not sure.
Even if people donât hold Grin, it can still be used as a medium of exchange. But this is why the on/off ramps are important. Holding can become more popular as it is used more often for transactions.
Regarding interactivity: the biggest part of Nostr integration would be the ability to use its DMs to send slatepacks seemlessly behind the scenes without users realizing it. You get non-interactivity for free with slatepack flows.
I thought about deeplink, but there is no use-case for this yet, since raw slatepacks messages are more popular than Tor addresses and nobody uses services like grinbox, the main target for me now is to make it usable for payments, also create plugins for easier integration, for now all we need is QR code and copy button with Slatepack Message.
Same! If we could tap on a slatepack in any messaging app we use and have it open a grin wallet with the slatepack already loaded. Thatâs a big step up in UX.
But you are making great progress! I agree with the baby steps
What does this mean? Like a Wordpress plugin for shops? I would caution against spending too much time on that mainly because legitimate businesses have a lot of issues with accepting crypto and a plug-in is not even scratching the surface. Community custody wallets, multi-user permissioned wallets, view-key and auditability, this stuff is way more important.
For small shops, e.g. hobby shops, a plugin would be very convenient. Those are shops that accept payments in grin out of principle. Large shops are indeed a more complex story and rarely they are interested in accepting small crypto projects out of principle. It is ok if they are not perfectly catered to yet.
Nothing stops a shop owner from paying taxes on income from crypto such as Grin. It actually has little to do with crypto or the particulars of a crypto currency. Where I live you declare just yotal income, you do not need to specify whether it is from cash, bank transfer or any crypto coin.
@Markozzz There is no contradiction there. Whether you pay taxes is up to you as individual. But yes you can use privacy preserving sound money and your can pay taxes honestly on that income. In that way customers have privacy on their transactions while you still pay taxes to contribute to the system/government you befit from.
Yes, the whole tax system is a way to tax the poor. Rich companies often use offshore countries to register. Therefore, I consider the taxation of anonymous currency to be as stupid as paying taxes in my country, having an offshore jurisdiction.
I am not calling for breaking the law. But I see a dissonance
you miss the point. You can use knife for slicing bread or meat, or killling stabbing someone.
Responsibility of using a tool falls on person, not on tool. You cant ban knives, becuz of other peoples crimes.
Grin is just a tool.
No I did not miss your point. I obviously understand what youâre saying or I wouldnât be here.
There is legitimate tooling missing from enabling businesses to use Grin in a law abiding way. Grin favors breaking the law, which defeats the point of your analogy. Itâs not as neutral as youâre claiming.
There is indeed a wickedness in this world. Rich individuals, the highest incomes and large companies pay lower tax, which is insanely unfair. Yet, the poor keep on voting for rightwing parties that protect these tax rules in the name of liberty and freedom (liberty to stay poor). That is a problem Grin cannot fix unfortunately.
