Hi @rodarmor, congrats on Ordinal’s recent success! I’ve been excited to see it come to life. Is anything like that possible on Grin?
I think Grin is about the most spam proof chain there is. Where spam is shorthand for inscribed arbitrary data. This is because
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Grin is scriptless. So there’s no scripts in which to embed data.
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Grin has no addresses. So you can’t embed data in a pretend address. (you can in other hybrid MW chains like Litecoin).
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Kernels only allow a few bytes of arbitrary data in past lock heights. If you spread such data over many kernels of one tx, then finding them among a block’s sorted kernels is a challenge.
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Outputs only allow some arbitrary data in the rangeproofs, much of which is only retrievable by the owner. Since I don’t understand BPs in detail, someone else will need to say how many bytes could be made publicly visible. It will in any case be a small percentage of the BP size of 674 bytes. And it suffers the same challenge of finding a tx’s outputs among a block’s sorted ones. Finally, it will disappear from most full nodes once the output is spent.
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In Grin, the vast majority of bits that land on chain are pseudorandom because they come as a result of a one-way function. This makes it relatively hard to pick arbitrary bytes as you’d need to do PoW on ECC operations.
Not sure about bulletproofs and the free variables there.
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I haven’t thought in depth, but I would definitely carefully consider any variable length field, of any kind, as a vector for arbitrary data. I cannot emphasize how much attention Ordinals has gotten, so if someone tried to implement Ordinals for Grin, it wouldn’t even be in the top 100 stupid things that have been done with Ordinals. I am severely bandwidth constrained, but I’ll keep an eye on this thread.
If anyone wants to drop their Discord handle, if I recognize you (probably mostly Grin OGs) I’ll give you the based role on the ordicord after you join, which gives access to the higher signal public channels: discord.gg/ordinals.
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I noticed we only touched the inscriptions part. There’s also something to note about ordinals. Unlike in Bitcoin where the inputs and outputs are ordered, in Grin they come in a set. While this is implemented as an ordered list, the noninteractive aggregation prevents you from guaranteeing the order because every aggregation sorts the inputs and outputs again which means you can’t do ordinal-like transfer of nanogrins.
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On this subject, I would recommend for the hobby this paper co-authored by Rudolf Ahlswede.
Creating order in sequence spaces with simple machines (1990)
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I just realized that @rodarmor who successfully launched Ordinals and Runes later was part of the Grin community at the beginning.
Grin project feels like such a waste with so many talented devs and privacy enthusiast that have come and go over the years.
After 5 years the activity seems to be at an all time low. I am still grinning but i sincerely hope that people in charge of the treasury chest could understand that a little promotion once in a while (listening to Marek latest’s interview, i actually wondered when was the last time someone from the Grin Council went on a podcast to expose Grin for example) is not so bad and that bringing back some eyes on Grin (whether devs or investors) would benefit everyone. The initial hype is gone and people won’t magically come and work on this project if they don’t even know it (still) exists.
(Oh and I know already that the pavlovian answer will be “but it is designed for the decades to come”)
Wouldn’t it be great if we saw community members stepping up and doing these things? I think this is what rodarmor did with ordinals. He thought hard, found something that was interesting to him, built it without asking for permission, went on podcasts and even started his own podcast. I was happy to see @renzokuken do an interview on Grin with Vlad. It shows that someone else from the community is willing to put in the time and energy into spreading the word about Grin. If you look at Bitcoin community interviews they rarely feature Wuille, Poelstra and other experts. It’s mostly community members that gained influence by doing things on their own and they try to explain the project from their own (unique?) perspective. I wish people did that for Grin as well.
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ordinals and runes in grin will kill the project LOL
good thing ordinals are not possible on Grin LOL
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I think a lot of us do. Part of the thing is that you should become respected in other communities. And then mention how you like Grin and why at the right moments.
Without gaining respect elsewhere, our opinions don’t matter as much.