Public transaction data is a huge risk vector

Yeah there is already illegal data on the bitcoin blockchain, not just linked it’s written straight into it.

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I don’t know if you are aware but simply using bitcoin without the government knowing is “illegal” so is using cannabis and jaywalking. Lots of things that harm no one are illegal and should never be compensated for by restricting users freedom.

When talking about what I described above, that is a vector for actual harm. Not talking about Jaywalking here but rather very nefarious things. Use your imagination.

To be clear, I’m pointing this out as a benefit to Grin. Grin does not have this same threat vector because it doesn’t have the public transaction data

Possible but very unlikely…

Limmited options to post specific data is indeed a great strength of Grin. For one, this limits insentive to bloat the chain, keeping Grin pure and minimal. Now bloat can only be created with many micro transactions for which an attacker incures significant cost.

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I don’t think you are understanding, if I want to do nefarious things with grin I can because it is completely anonymous. That being said cracking down on specific coins because there are bad people in the world is a recipe for censorship and is wrong no matter what any coin holder does ever. Grin will be challenged for this and no one will buy the idea that because Grin is a privacy coin that no one can use it for evil, sure they can. Just like people can use any other currency for evil.

You are the one that doesn’t understand. I’m specifically talking about permanent public data on public blockchains.

It has nothing to do with spending money.

It has to do with permanently linking torrents to blackmail, child porn, etc on the blockchain.

No it will not. Because it doesn’t have public transaction data. There is nothing to post in transactions that would permanently soil the blockchain.

Can they do with bitcoin blockchain atm ?

With Ordinals yes. And there is no way to block ordinals AFAIK

Ordinals are not directly stored on chain they are references to on chain data, you should do research before claiming things that are outright false. There is literally no support for ordinals in bitcoin core its 100% auxiliary and like you fail to understand such a thing CAN be done with grin. Just like I can offer 100 grins for an assassination or something else heinous grin WILL be challenged for this because it is a privacy coin so enough delusional assertions without evidence backing them up please.

No it cannot. This has already been discussed in this forum.

Again, you fail to understand. This has nothing to do with spending money. It has to do with public, permanent transaction data and how that itself is a threat vector. Nothing to do with money.

It’s possible to store data in the Grin blockchain. About a year ago I put the Mimblewimble whitepaper in the MWC floonet blockchain by storing it as the lock height of several thousand height locked kernels.

At the current Grin block height, 21 bits of arbitrary data can be stored per kernel using the same method. And at the current base fee, the cheapest that a kernel can be added to the Grin blockchain costs ツ0.0125.

So storing 1 bit of data permanently in the Grin blockchain cost ツ0.000595238, and it’d cost approximately ツ62 to store that whitepaper on the Grin blockchain.


Sorry, Nicolas, you did not really store the whitepaper in the MWC blockchain. Instead you almost randomly scattered the thousands of bits in the whitepaper over the MWC blockchain, losing much of their structure in the process.

Then, to enable someone to put all these bits back together in the right order, you provided this huge list of kernels which is MUCH larger than the whitepaper itself.

It’s like spreading a millions coins, each engraved with a few bits, over the world’s oceans, and saying you stored the data in the ocean. While providing a multi megabyte file containing the GPS coordinates of each coin in order to retrieve the data.

Note that this is exactly the point (#3) I made in this post arguing that Grin is the most spam resistent blockchain. You clearly demonstrated how the cost of retrieval can easily exceed the amount of data retrieved.

PS: you could almost just as easily have stored the data in the kernel commitments themselves instead of in their timelock. It’s just like creating vanity addresses. All you need to do is compute xG for about ln(2^21)*2^21< 2^25 x’s and you can expect to have the least significant 21-bits in the xG commitments to assume all 2^21 possible values. That’s why Grin allowing 21 bits of arbitrary data in lockheight is not something to be overly concerned about.


I don’t want to argue here any more, but simply my point is that we will need to overcome regulatory issues just like EVERY OTHER COIN has to we are not somehow special in that we don’t have to deal with these issues.

who is ‘’ WE ‘’ ?
Which regulatory, which country, which law ? There is no regulatory issue for a decentralized network.
See: Bitcoin.

This is a good point. If we think of a sequence of kernels as being data, we could even argue every possible data already exists on the chain. The algorithm is pretty trivial:

  1. Find 256 kernels whose commitments start with all possible byte values 00000000, 00000001, 00000010,… and construct a mapping byte -> kernel
  2. Make a sequence of kernels whose commitments first bytes construct your data

You can claim any data is on chain because you can construct any sequence of bytes.


There are no regulatory issues for Bitcoin? Thats just ignorant, bitcoin is one of the most politically active currencies next to USD. Why Governments Are Wary of Bitcoin To suggest such a thing means you are just turning a blind eye to things like the silk road which literally put bitcoin and monero on the map to a huge extent. To proclaim we will never encounter challenges related to this is DELUSIONAL.

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I am not trying to give you a hard time, but you are just missing the point of this thread.

Storing illegal data in bitcoin transactions is something that has not even been considered yet by law enforcement and such.

I am pointing out that this will absolutely be a problem in the future for Bitcoin, but it will not be a problem for Grin.

The point is that, regardless of any privacy concerns, it is safer and more efficient to have as little public data as possible.

The idea of permanent, public data is just a threat vector that has not really been considered up til now. It has always been assumed before that illegal data can be taken down. But if you encode the data in your financial system. You can’t take that down unless you take down the whole financial system.

Grin is just better at doing one thing well.