Grin vs China Coin!

I have a few questions for the technical people in here:

Will Grin mining be as concentrated in one region as Bitcoin is today and is there anyway to stop that from happening? I heard that you can run a Grin node on your phone, how will that impact the security of the network?

My reason for asking is that there is no way that the Chinese are mining Bitcoin or any other currency without the CCP giving the ok! The miner in China in the article below started off by cutting a deal with a CCP official. So if China aims for its digital currency to be used around the world, what’s to stop it from forcing miners to attack the networks?

I think one thing is very clear here, and that is the Chinese leadership are very clear about their goals while the rest are all playing culture/ religious wars around the world.

"All Alibaba’s sales were done via Alipay (an electronic payment system). What does Alipay mean? It means that currency is out of the trade platform. The U.S. hegemony is based on its dollar. What is the dollar? It is a currency. In the future, when we stop using currency to complete sales, the traditional currency will be useless. Will the empire that is established on currency still exist? That is the question that the Americans should think about.

Today’s capital may disappear when currency disappears. When the production method changes along the line of 3D printing, the human world will step into a new social mode. At that time, China and the U.S. will stand at the same starting line of the Internet, big data, and cloud computing. The competition at that time will depend on who will be the first to step through this new door, not on who will press the other down. From this point of view, I say that the U.S. has chosen the wrong opponent."

The above is from a Chinese general.

From today, an article in the BBC, a big player in mining in China talking about the Chinese digital currency:

One day everyone in the world will be using DCEP," he says.

"DCEP will be successful because there are a lot of Chinese people living outside of China - there are 39 million Chinese living outside of the country.

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In his book Disunited Nations, Peter Zeihan beautifully lists all of the arguments that people suggest will lead to increasing global relevance of China and its major threat to America and the west.

He then goes on to claim they’re hilariously wrong and explains why.

If there’s anybody I trust for geopolitical commentary, it’s him.

Anyhow, regarding your mining question; It’s hard to tell. Grin mining (Cuakcatoo) should be less energy intensive and thus doesn’t have to be as concentrated in cheap energy markets. But no doubt it would still happen to some degree.
Beyond that, I’m afraid it’s hard to predict. Depends on many things.

And mobile nodes don’t contribute anything against majority mining attacks.

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I’ve only skimmed through his book, but I get the feeling that he is another one saying China will collapse/ internal trouble will keep it busy because of x, or y! They have been saying that for 20 years, and instead of collapse China is spending trillions upgrading its economy (something the West should of done in the late 70s) and spreading its tech and state owned companies all over the world!

The fact is, all systems that have come before have collapsed . I’m sure China will at some time in the future, but it will not be for decades!

Ask yourself, what happens if he’s wrong?

This might sound like a stupid question, but why not put a limit into how many mining machines can be run in a specific location?

That’s not at all what he is saying. I still haven’t finished it, but i haven’t seen this argument once.

  1. Not practically possible.
  2. Introduces centralized decision making.

I did say I only skimmed it, I will read it. I would recommend you look at The New Rules of War: Victory in the Age of Durable Disorder by Sean Mcfate.

Before Covid, the rules were changing, after Covid, the gloves will come off. I hear Western analysts openly talking about arming rebels in China, I see the Western press covering the oppression of Muslims in Xinjang, I see tweets by Muslims supporting their brothers in China… Something is cooking and it’s not the first time, just look at the Soviet Union! This time, the Chinese can hit back in many different ways!

Anyway, I think it’s a big mistake to allow mining to concentrate in one region. The fact is, this problem will have to be confronted sooner or later.

@Bread I do think many perceive it as problematic or somewhat risky that mining is dominantly chinese. However, the insentives for both the chinese state and individual chinese miners to attempt an attack e.g. 51% attack is low. In the end it would cost them a lot of money since the crypto they own, e.g. Bitcoin will drop in value.
It is true China is becomming increasingly powerfull and influential e.g. they own a lot of mining and as such resources through mining in Afrika and they become increasingly influential in the South chinese sea. There are however also plenty of problems in China, e.g. looming property crisis, empty cities, hug debt and many banks are financially unhealthy. To much open conflict is not good for China since it damages their economy and opens the door for instigating internal division by foreign governaments. I am not only talking about devision by targetting minorities but also the fact that large parts of chinese population are still relatively poor and many rich do not have any nationalistic ideology, e.g. they care just about themselve. So all in all, lets not make China bigger or scarier in the mind than they are.

The problem is as @Paouky mentioned that it is hard/near impossible to limit mining in a region. E.g. newly mined blocks by a chinese miner can simply be relayed through computers outside china. Ironically, one of the best ways to avoid this dominance of mining in China is going green/state sponsored green energy production. Not exactly in line with Trumps plan for the US.
Anyhow, these are just my thoughts based on limited information and what I know from my 1 month trip through China and from Chinese friends. I did not read any book on it.

China does not have a choice about engaging in a conflict, it already is in one. The Korean war, the Vietnam war, were all about containing China( look up The Pentagon Papers) The Chinese will get hit, and that I’m 90-95 % sure about. By that I mean America will move against them, it could be by sponsoring armed groups, killing scientist, attacking infrastructure…a mix of many different forms of warfare. And of course the Chinese will hit back.

I think many people underestimate the change that is happening in the West. For many years the western elites have tried to contain imperialist powers because they were the imperialist and they know what happens to those who are invaded. So this mask of democracy, liberalism…Will fall off! I see those elite after world war 2 as nothing more than tricksters. Soon we will see a new group and these won’t be talking about spreading democracy, it will be back to the hard power plays that we saw in the 18th and 19th and early 20th century. I really would recommend The Hour of Decision was by Oswald Spengler.

I really don’t care about any government, be it the Chinese leadership or any Western one! The fact is while they fight it out, it’s the majority of the population that gets hit. I think we are entering a period of serious disruption on a planetary scale. As far as I’m concerned we are entering a period of disruption that could last 100 years! So for me, I want digital cash that’s not threatened by any one government, because no government would accept an independent parallel financial system. If the mining was in America, I would say the exact same thing.

Look up some of the writing of Peter Turchin. He worked out that America would see lots of disruption starting in 2020. He did this in 2010 or so. What did he base it on? Mainly demographics! Look at Lebanon, it has a declining working population and increasing ageing population. It’s working age population peaked last year, and what happened last year? The place got lit up by protest and riots. Same thing in Chile. Same in America, UK…And its starting to happen in China. Look up the U.N. population site. Here’s Lebonan

https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/Probabilistic/POP/15-64/422

Check other countries, many are having and will have the same problems! If I would name this age, I would say we are entering the age of chaos! Whether we know it or not, accept it or not , we are all going to pay a price and much sooner than I would have ever expected!

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Huh, I actually just finished Age of Discord last week. Fantastic read.

I think you worry too much. Sure, things may get ugly and chaotic in the next decade. But is there anything we can do about it? No.
Is there a way to further decentralize mining geo-location? Not really, refer to the infinite discussions bitcoiners had about this over the past 11 years.

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I am of the same mind. In any case if the world powers try to mess each other up, that will only increase the adoption of digital currencies like Bitcoin and Grin. So digital currencies are a good hedge against major disruptions.

Interesting link you mention between demographics and the start of disruption. I will check out the link you send when I have time. We live in an age when warfare is more subtle. Instigating riots, nationalism, economic warfare and digital warfare. Unfortunately, the results of these are the same as physical warfare, major disruption of the status quo, inflation, resource scarcity and poverty. And then we are still waiting for the big impacts of climate change to sweet water supply, agriculture, and the decline in fish stocks near coastal waters due to coral reef death etc. The coming 50 years will be interesting and full of challenges for humanity to overcome. I try to stay positive about the capacity of humans to unite to overcome these problems but there sure is the risk of devision, chaos and increased suffering for large parts of the world population.

But like Pauky said, do not worry to much about it since there is little we can do about it. Just buy some crypto, keep grinning :grin: :wink:

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DCEP- listen to how evil that ticker sounds. DCEP, fitting isn’t it?

A 100 years will happen, there is nothing we can do about it, this is inevitable… the future is Crypto, maybe Grin (I hope). Did you read this? https://medium.com/@CryptoProfG

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I don’t think I worry too much, I think a lot of people are not connecting the dots and playing them out in the future.

It was an open secret that the West was entering a period of disruption, now, if you were China, when would you hit? 2020 seems like a perfect time from my point of view. Let’s add a little Art of War:

To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.

9. Neither is it the acme of excellence if you fight and conquer and the whole Empire says, “Well done!”

10. To lift an autumn hair is no sign of great strength; to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight; to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.

11. What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.

12. Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom nor credit for courage.

13. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

14. Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position which makes defeat impossible, and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy. ( This is when you hit at the right time)

15. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Was Covid an accident, maybe, maybe not! But I’m going to bet there is an unwritten rule in biological war that whatever is released, or allowed to spread must be an equal opportunities killer!

And don’t think Trump winning was a bad thing for the state. They love him. They can blame him for breaking old alliances and ending norms while they play shocked. He did what they wanted to do. They call it Trumportunities. America cut loose from old alliances and obligations is a lean mean state, debt or no debt. The rules in and outside the West have changed, you are going to see them play out soon.

Demographics is a very interesting field, you should really look it up. Peter Turchin has some interesting stuff.

I didn’t notice that. You can turn it into Decepticon!

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No, I haven’t seen it, I will look it up thanks.

Grin is the real deceptacoin