And that is a problem right there. People pushing UIs and ignoring how things works, the result is a bad UX.
I can’t think of a situation where a bad UX can be attributed to a lack of understanding the core blockchain code. If you can think of an example, I will learn the core Grin codebase through brute force so that I can make a Venmo app for Grin.
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I think the need to match the wallet experience to the technology is specific for Grin, since its interactivity requires proper alignment of the transaction flow/technology with the UI. For Bitcoin or any, publish whatever you want on the chain coin, such knowledge is not needed at all, I agree.
Knowledge of Grin technology has not to be in dept, only a general understanding of the rounds of interactivity needed, as well ass some default behavior, such safe cancel, to give users a good user experience.
this is made simple with Slatepacks though, right? send, sign and return, sign and send back again.
Yep, indeed. Actually it works rather well.
So the technical understanding needed is quite rudimentary IMO. You just need to understand Grin needs to be offline, hence colored addresses in Grin++, and that transactions are interactive, so keep the user informed where he is in the transaction process.
The transport method information can be separated, this opens up a whole field of new opportunities, it is not necessary for the user to text exchanges based messages, it could be literally any method, here you can use your imagination. That’s one thing. Also the idea of having listeners is also interesting… could we have multiple listeners listening at the same time? Since transactions are interactive, and since we are using listeners, why are we auto signing incoming slates, can the RSR flow be eliminated? These are a few examples of things that affect the UX in one way or another, and knowing the details could broaden the conversations and explore ideas.
What we need several smart people constantly thinking about the UX, but thinking out of the box because Grin is not Bitcoin 2.0, it is something totally different, so the approach must be different.
To me, what is needed is not backend Rust experts. What is needed is actually React developers. Flutter developers. Front-end Designers.
This is why I am always asking for an SDK.
If the person with the design sensibilities also needs to dive into core Grin rust code, well that certainly limits the potential contributors to a huge degree.
You know Grin++ UI is written in ReactJs right? What is stopping you to contribute? Also IronBerry is written in React Native, what is stopping you to contribute?
You are not understanding anything, mate, or just ignoring it to keep asking for a SDK, why don’t you write one with Javascript? What is stopping you?
I’m done with people asking, no one is stopping anyone to do anything. Grin have only 2 people writing code and here you are “asking for a SDK”, this is simply insulting. No one is stopping you of using Figma or whatever to start designing a UI, why are you not doing that?
By the way UX is not equal than UI.
If you want to implement wallet then you could probably use grin-wallet which exposes api for many things
The code doesn’t use an SDK for the grin functionality. So it’s unclear what is wallet-specific code and what is grin-specific code. The line between grin node and wallet/app is blurred.
So if I want to make my own react app, I need to fork the wallet and meticulously remove things piece by piece until all I have left is… basically an SDK? idk, i’m not that skilled of a developer. I have passion though.
At some point you should ask why there are only 2 people writing code. That is all I am getting at. What would make a more developer-friendly project? How can we set people up for success?
It’s not the code and it’s not the tools. Grin had many more people contributing with roughly the same source code we have today. A (relatively skilled) developer could start making changes on the node/wallet by simply playing around with the code builds and increase their contribution over time. We really just lack people with the skills and initiative to do that.
Edit: Regarding integrations, the tools would definitely help e.g. exchange integrations and others. There’s definitely a room for improving all these things, but there’s nothing that can’t be done today.
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You just do not know what you are talking about.
No, you don’t have to, it all depends on what you want to build… but again, no one is stopping anyone from doing anything, if you think it’s the right thing to do to have a SDK, do it.
Right now in this moment, anyone could contribute by reviewing the API, read the Docs, and compare Grin++ vs grin, and suggest an unified and improved API, you do not need to be a developer. A good QA could do it.
Grin is a decentralized project, anyone can contribute where and how they feel comfortable. You just need some initiative.
Thank you for brining me up! I’ll take advantage of this mention and give you guys some updates. I have been silent because of my PhD as you said, but also escape from Shanghai to Europe was a true hell. You guys know there was this Shanghai lockdown. Crazy story.
I’m back in Europe now, I am setting up a company which will be able to also cover Grinventions work from legal and tax perspective. I even got some funding already (but not sure if person who will fund the work is willing to be mentioned so for now I will keep it confidential). Please stay tuned, I promise you ツ is not disappearing and there will be regular commits from my side. I am even considering learning Rust and applying for funding and doing some PR to core code.
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This is not an answer to what I said above. If you don’t have an answer, just don’t answer. Instead, you’re just trying to shut me up.
Communication and open discussion is the first step to making things happen. I am talking here because I want to bounce ideas around with people that have more info. Please do not see anything I say as a personal attack on yourself. It is not. I am not trying to make you write an SDK. But talking about the potential of an SDK and seeing if people like the idea is a first step to making it happen.
If there was an SDK, then there could be a little more separation between core Rust developers and front-end developers that don’t know backend code very well. A contributor wouldn’t need to be as much of a full-stack developer which would increase the ways that people could contribute.
Maybe that is a bad idea! It could be a bad idea. But I won’t know unless people engage with what I’m saying rather than hand-waving me off and shutting me down.
A great discussion… Grin will not disappear of course
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But it makes the mining experience extremely tedious. Automatic payment is essential.
Thank you for pointing out this. Exchange support is really the most critical problem in the current state of Grin. To receive a mass adoption, at present, unavoidably, is to list Grin at exchanges as many as possible.
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We should not optimize for miner’s experience imo, but for user’s overall experience. While there are some miners, especially when the coin is less profitable, which care about the future of the coin, most miners do it because it makes them money (that’s how mining incentives work). So optimizing for them is not the way to go imo. Let me just make it clear that i have nothing against the miners, i’m ofc happy to see miners mine grin, but imo they need to, just like everyone else, adapt to grin having interactive transactions.
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