I’m not suggesting we should separate it, I’m making the claim that it naturally is separate, no matter what we’d like to think, and I’m not sure what can be done about that.
What if there’s a go implementation tomorrow that has its own governance, roadmap, and priorities. How would that be represented by the mw GitHub?
We can still voluntarily collaborate amongst implementations, but this is inherently fragile, and only works when there’s agreement about matters, not when there’s disagreement.
debating moderation decisions is off-topic in this thread, feel free to DM if you want to discuss further: @lehnberg
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Excessive moderation is one example of why the core team and governance structure is out of control. After a year of complex and convoluted moderation team efforts they still have nothing because just as the structure for discussing changes to grin is overly complex and cumbersome, so is the moderation policy.
The poor decisions of the core and governance are also entirely on topic, it is one reason why the whole thing needs to be dismantled.
The fact that the security lead has contributed nothing of substance to the issue that grin’s protocol cannot guarantee ownership of funds is another great example.
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@lehnberg no idea where you get off moderating things that are on topic but you dont like. Even worse that you attempt to summarize what we mean. You are creating a bigger problem than you think you are fixing. Stop spending time and effort to create problems with unilateral, centralized and cumbersome policies. This is what we are trying to talk about.
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ON TOPIC!
What is this? Why are people voices being mute? Who do you think you are?
This is very very wrong.
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@lehnberg gets to decide who gets funds and who’s opinion matters… Ironically, even on a thread discussing how shitty the core and governance structure is…
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Reminder:
Please stay on topic, stay constructive, refrain from name calling, labelling, and generally: Try to add value to the conversation.
I will continue to moderate this thread as I pledged to do in my original post. If you want to lament this approach, there’s now a dedicated thread in the forum where your complaints will be on-topic:
https://forum.grin.mw/t/moderation-on-the-thread-core-team-and-governance-structure/
What is all the babysitting about? Don’t you have anything more useful to do with your time?
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@joltz is not grin’s security lead, he is a volunteer contributor who has done more for the project than 99.5% of the people here. Are you really coming at him with these accusations? He owes us nothing.
This is why the core team structure should be dismantled. Nothing good comes of it.
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Looks like it’s high time to make it clear that the “core team” only relates to the Grin Rust implementation project. And the Grin Rust implementation developers should be free to organize their governance as they want.
That’s a very naive way to look at it. It was never defined as a rust implementation team, nor is it presented this way anywhere.
I’ve read almost every document ever written and every thread ever posted. This is simply not true, and never was.
Not sure why your post was flagged. Anyway, I think the problem is that it’s perceived, as you say, that he “applied to positions of responsibility”. Our project shouldn’t have any such positions, and nothing that looks like it.
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I think the expectations from some of the community members are ‘unadjusted’ to a decentralized setting. I don’t think he “applied” for volunteering in this role, he’s probably just the guy that has the most experience in security. People try to match a role of a security guy in a company with one in a decentralized setting and expect them to act the same. It’s a completely different situation and as people have said, he owes nothing to anyone. I don’t think it really matters who holds that title. Might be best to throw away these titles to avoid any further confusion as there will be more people joining the community and doing the same mistake. Volunteers work on things they are interested in. For anything else, there are contracts. Honestly, I would lose any interest in the replay solutions and I wouldn’t even think of investing any of my free time if I was treated in a similar way he is. We should first get better, be nicer to each other and then we can expect people investing their free time. To make it clear, this wasn’t targeted at you kurt, but rather at the situation that came from this.
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I never said that it was, I said it should. And rather sooner than later.
This is simply wrong. He was nominated. Know your Grin history. Be precise. https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin-pm/blob/master/notes/20190702-meeting-governance.md#33-add-a-fourth-contact-to-securitymd
The suggestion that @joltz is not contributing enough to security is so outlandishly absurd that I won’t even comment on that. Having worked through a few CVEs with him by now as part of the security team, I don’t know where Grin would be today if he had not been there.
All of this is off-topic by the way, I’m going to be hiding this as soon as I finish up some other stuff.
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@kurt - Please create a new forum thread for your thoughts about how best to turn away some of the more valuable contributors to the project.
I’m sure you can find some other individuals to discuss this further with, but it’s not on subject in this thread.
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Great ideas, give more details pls
Based on some of the ideas raised in this thread, @paouky and I have submitted an RFC:
Feedback is highly encouraged (ideally) in the pull request of the RFC, or in thread here.
This governance iteration replaces the previous process that was set out in RFC#0002 with a simplified and better defined version. Specifically it:
I like it! Simple but fine. Below a few suggestions that might help improve governance as well as might help in the formation of sub-teams.
@Mane Do you want to form the ‘Legilimency’ sub-team together with me and others who are interested? The goal of this team is to peak into the mind of the community, quantify their wants, needs.