The community council catches a lot of heat because we put ourselves out there. People see us doing things. A lot of people don’t realize that a separate core team (the OC) exists.
Who is on this team? What do they do? Are they all collecting a constant pay check or what is happening with the funding?
If core team is unable to merge even 1 single PR, then why don’t they open a job req for someone who can?
核心团队就是为了拿工资，即比特币以外的项目全力下放不可取的，大家还是醒一醒吧，他们为什么不把剩余的比特币换成grin呢？他们都不愿意相信grin可以成功，其实这也是主要的原因，所以说现在拥有grin话语权的都是一些诈骗犯
五年时间下来你看花了多少比特币，他们干了什么事，按理来说，应该有一个追责，口口声声说不准备搞营销，既然是一个好的项目，就应该要去分享出去，让更多喜欢的人来参加这个项目来，所以说核心人员都是站着茅坑不拉屎，反正工资天天有，都是一些畜牲，国际诈骗犯
我呼吁取消管理层工资待遇，要求他们把之前领过的工资全部退还，反正这个社区有他们和没他们都没有区别。
I don’t know all the history and details and background, but I tend to agree with trab here. What does the core team even do? Pay yeastplume 3 BTC per year to make a few commits per quarter? If you look at the last few reports that seems to be the extent of it. I don’t know who or how or why that was decided, and that’s fine I guess, but it seems very unhelpful to have such a closed and unresponsive “core team” hiding out on a platform that literally no one in the world uses (keybase). It is effectively shutting themselves off from the world and…it seems to be causing some frustration and resentment.
I just want to note a few things I am otherwise not much interested in engaging in this discussion.
There is no such thing as the “core team”, it was dismantled in 2020
-Dismantling the core team and governance structure
There is the Original Council and the CC. CC can fund things (e.g. mimblewimble-py, Grin++, mwixnet vounties) OC can fund things (e.g. grin GUI, mwixnet integration, Ledger bounty)
What is success? Grin is an experiment where we all try to do things different and in the best way, so no premine, no bullshit, no marketing.
-No this, no that · mimblewimble/docs Wiki · GitHub
Grins price is not a good measure of success, staying true to the principles and objectives that were set out when Grin was created and continous and patiently development is what I would consider success.
Haters will be haters and thats ok. The fair principles with which Grin works are not for everyone. Although low prices in the early years were very much to be expected, I understand that waiting can be frustrating. Everyone would love things to go faster! And we can all help with that. Start testing Mwixnet, explain to people what makes Grin unique (such as not shilling and spending on marketing😉), we can all be the change we would like to see.
The desire to have more developers to work on Grin is understandable. CC has funds, OC has funds so yaaa… if you know someone capable who does believe in the idea of Grin, bring them in! More developers (not those who are purly after a quick buck) are very welcome.
I will not further comment on this discussion since I am not in or ever was part of this mysterious “core team”. @trab I agree that is unfortunate that the CC as being the most active communicating council gets blamed by those who are frustrated. We are only community members who in our free time try to help facilitate development of Grin as a project. Please all remember, council members on either CC or OC are just like you, unpaid enthousiast who in their free time try to help Grin move forward.
None of us just “know” people. If the OC has the money, they need to open an actual job req. If Yeastplume can get paid, other people can get paid too, right? Clearly, help is needed.
If they don’t have the money to do it, let’s talk about it.
You know how you get those? By merging PRs from passionate devs and including them in the project!
How many passionate devs have been discouraged and turned away from Grin after seeing their contributions collect dust?
I was thinking just the other day, why don’t we include any Chinese developers? There is a Grin community in China, right?
I just want to know what the money is going towards. I want to understand what is going on with the OC.
We have an excellent example how an independent developer could contribute to Grin and get paid: mwixnet by @scilio
Perhaps @scilio is open to more work in either a bounty, Funding Proposal or Funding request format.
我也不知道他们花了这么多比特币，没有一个开发项目是完成的，这样的社区管理者，我们要他干嘛，中国社区一片骂声，每一个人都在抱怨，其实grin已经失败了，所以要求解散社区吧，把剩余的比特币还回给捐赠者，没办法，遇到一个国际骗子，把持整个项目，真的是耻辱
That’s great, but the problems we have are related to the core wallet functionality. People aren’t turned away from Grin because of a lack of additional features, they’re turned away because the basic functionality is janky or just missing.
Thank you for the perspective. Are there any developers in the chinese community that have tried to contribute? Did they find it difficult or impossible?
We have/had some great Chinese developers who contributed to Grin. There are probably more but these are the ones I know of:@xiaojay @aixinrock who created on or worked on the following great contributions to the project
-[Grinmail]GitHub - aixinrock/grinmail: A terminal tool that can automatically receive and send grins with one command.
-[grinmw Python wrapper]GitHub - grinfans/grinmw.py: python for grin
-[Niffler wallet]GitHub - grinfans/Niffler: Niffler is a grin gui wallet. support mac/linux/win
Grinmail is the archetype! Fantastic product. This is exactly what I would like to see built on Nostr or something similar. Slatepack maximalism.
小杰早都心冷了，估计两年都不开发写代码了，你的信息都没有更新了，难怪grin变成这样
Why has he lost interest though? Is it partially due to mismanagement of funds?
@trab You can DM him and ask. It is usefull to know why people move on from a project (not sure if he did, that would be a first question). I have done this for a few old users already. It gave me a good idea of what they were missing. For example, I am working to fix some missed capabilities for power users by building an extra wallet tool. In only a few cases, e.g., developers like @davidtavarez and @i1skn I got feedback that showed frustration with governance.
I am still waiting response from core team, to say few words.
@oryhp @tromp @Yeastplume.
What is the silence?
I’m on holidays, but I see this. Just quickly for now and I’ll respond after the holiday season.
I don’t believe this is accurate and is an unfair dismissal of the work I do. I’m working across about 7 or 8 repositories, so if you’re just looking at the main grin repo you’re not getting the whole picture. Also, there’s plenty of time needed to prepare and test PRs, particularly when you’re the only developer on absolutely everything.
I’ve had this hiring conversation a thousand times over the (7 or 8?) years I’ve been on this project. We are not a corporation, we cannot ‘hire’ people in the traditonal sense, and the solution is nowhere near as simple as ‘open a job req’. (If it were either the OC or CC would have done this by now). I’ll properly explain all of the reasons why hiring is a very difficult problem when I have more time to articulate them.
But otherwise, I’m still here and I’m still working on Grin.
Have a good new year everyone!