Currency Symbol [ ɠ / ꞡ / ǥ / other ] #BS

₲ang des gobelins,

At some point it will probably be useful to have a standard symbol to represent grin, for wallets and such to have some consistency. The symbol for the Paraguayan currency, the guaraní, came up early on, ₲, but being already another currency, and also upper-case when so far people have been fond of calling it grin with a minuscule G, it did not seem ideal to me. Maybe neither of those things matter, as the guarani symbol is quite handsome. Alas, the sun rains down upon naked bicycles.

I spent some time looking to see if there were some stylized lower-case G symbols out there that might do the duty and, lo, there were a few. I encourage anyone who cares about this at all to peruse wikipedia and/or other sources to find interesting alternative symbols we might use. My eyes were drawn to three in particular.

  1. ɠ aka g-wth-hook
  2. ꞡ aka g-barre
  3. ǥ aka g-with-stroke

Not all of these are created equal however.

  1. ɠ - common character and shows up in many/most font sets. Renders on most devices. That hook is a little bit harry-potter-esque.

  2. ꞡ - uncommon, does not appear in most font sets, and does not render on many devices. Interestingly however, it does not have an English wikipedia page… only a French one… Elvis strikes again?

  3. ǥ - common character, shows up in many/most font sets. Renders on most devices. As Igno said, however, the symbol on many devices looks like a lower-case g with a bit of dust on your screen… not ideal, but also not a unique lssue, as the other symbols (even the guarani currency symbol) look hideous on many devices as well.

I think that aesthetic quality is not so much as important as universality… as long as it is not unintelligible it can be ugly as hell so long as it can be consistently used and rendered clearly across the world. Heck having it be a G in any form at all is not really important… but convenient for human relatability. Heck we could get funky with alchemical/astrological symbols… :aquarius:︎ aquasius… looks like a mw to me… 🜓 cinebar… those look like cross througgh g’s to me… the shed is now two stories tall.

What’s nice about 2&3 (and the guarani as well) is the line across the letter can represent the cut-through process that happens in mimblewimble txs. A stroke of luck for us in the bikeshed biz.

  1. Alternatively we could just call it XGR or XGN (or XD since it looks like a laughing grinning emoticon), but that isn’t nearly as fun.

I created a poll on twitter to test the water, but it only contains these three options.

Looking forward to running future polls with more options if anyone discovers something very good. Hopefully not too many polls.

With the 3rd option winning out so far with 44% of 50 votes (I have no idea who is voting and whether their opinion is valuable, so I encourage forum users to partake) I also did some rough up of a design that takes the form of the G-strike symbol. These you can see on the logo discussion post here: Grin Logos for Community Consideration - #52 by 0xb100d

A sample from that post, which shows our third option from the poll, in the courier font, with a few stylistic freedoms:

These are just ideas and inspirations, I’m sure there are many other diverse options to choose from I have not considered and look forward to hearing about. I am not particularly biased toward any of the symbols, but I hope at least in some part my legwork can make the decision happen more easily and with minimal additional BS (bike shedding).

Yours
0xb100d

some renders for different apps/devices

ios twiter
ios%20twitter

ios safari
safari

chrome
chrome

tor w javascript
tor%20w%20javascript

tor no javascript

Unofficial poll ends in 4 hours if you still want to vote.

Ɠ - g with a hook the first one you mention i feel looks best

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The Greek letter Gamma - Γ could be an option imo !

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The Dollar sign with one stroke means that it is fiat currency. The dollar sign with two strokes means that it is backed by gold. you can still see this on certain stamps(red fox). I suggest using the greek Gamma sign or a G with two strokes instead of one as on the guarani.

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Well grin is not backed by gold…

hehe exactly, its not backed by anything. I would not call it a currency either. what is it? is there a definition?

a crypto currency ??

Maybe its too late but Г symbol looks awesome. Easy to recognise than this complicated ǥ

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not too late. leaving time to get more ideas before running another poll. I also like gamma.

I like the idea @lehnberg expressed in the gitter earlier, that anarchy can be a design choice. we already see it a bit in a number of logos being used in different contexts (I am using the creepy grin on the grinmw twitter, and lehnberg is using the simple MW smiley face for his newsletter for example). We may see different logos and different symbols for different apps and that’s probably okay. these things dont really matter at the end of the day so formalizing isnt that important, though a natural consensus could make the process simple enough eventually.

Could be that these different symbols are used for different amounts, like miligrin and kilogrin.

I like the greek letter gamma as well: 100Γ looks distinct.

There’s also a bunch of goofy fun ones. Here’s some I like:

100࿔ (Yig mgo: Tibetian symbol for next page/text)
100៚
100⅁
100⑇
100☻
100☺

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NOTE: some of the symbols below get automatically converted to forum shortcode… for a list of these in the plainest text possible please check out my bike-shedding document here, at the bottom: Nomenclature BS · mimblewimble/docs Wiki · GitHub

Haven’t tested rendering on devices for most/any of these… feel free to jump in.

! we could do something absolutely evil and comandeer the symbol for generic currency… ¤ … ¤333 … Currency sign (typography) - Wikipedia it is the universal ISO symbol for money… i feel like i’ve peekend inside pandora’s box. It’s like a glitch in the matrix… and very philosophicala symbolic.

Roman Czyborra writes in his Good ole’ ASCII that "the socialist countries managed to substitute the international currency sign ¤ for ASCII’s capitalist dollar sign in the the first international reference version ISO-646-IRV". However, the international currency symbol ¤ was proposed for inclusion in the international standard character code in place of the dollar or pound sign by the Italian delegation to the CCITT, not by the socialist countries. In a later vote, Italy, Portugal, Switzerland, and the USSR favored the use of the ¤ character; Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, and the United Kingdom preferred to standardize the and £ signs.
Sources: CCITT Working Group on Alphabets, October 6-9, 1964, CBI 67, box 3, folder 3; ISO TC 97/SC 2 and CCITT/GM ALP joint meeting, April 26-28, 1966, NMAH 310, box 5.

and now some other resources I’ve found… and some symbols that stand out. There are lots of options and I am 100% of the belief that the perfect one can jump out at us like a mystical epiphany, and that bikeshedding isn’t as arduous and arbitrary as it always seems to be.

From this document: http://bora.uib.no/bitstream/handle/1956/10699/MUFI-Alphabetic-4-0.pdf?sequence=9&isAllowed=y

 &grlig; EAD0 PUA-1 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE GR
doesnt show

ᵹ &gins; 1D79 PhonExt LATIN SMALL LETTER INSULAR G
Ᵹ &Gins; A77D LatExtD LATIN CAPITAL LETTER INSULAR G
ꝿ &ginsturn; A77F LatExtD LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED INSULAR G
Ꝿ &Ginsturn; A77E LatExtD LATIN CAPITAL LETTER TURNED INSULAR G

ꟿ &M5leg; A7FF LatExtD LATIN EPIGRAPHIC LETTER ARCHAIC M
199ꟿ aka ꟿ aka mimblewimble. that one is confusing and cool

ø ø 00F8 Lat1Suppl LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE
Ø Ø 00D8 Lat1Suppl LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
243Ø for a piece of bread
a symbolic cut-through… the $ sign is pretty abstract, ours needn’t be a G at all.
looks like a zero though, not great.

ʉ &ubar; 0289 IPAExt LATIN SMALL LETTER U BAR
777ʉ its like the S with a line through it $, but its a u, kind of like a little smile with a cuthru

ỽ &vwelsh; 1EFD LatExtAdd LATIN SMALL LETTER MIDDLE-WELSH V
looks kind of like a G when rendered differently

ˣ &xmod; 02E3 SpModLet MODIFIER LETTER SMALL X
420ˣ to pay the bills

◌͜◌ &combdblbrevebl; 035C CombDiaMk COMBINING DOUBLE BREVE BELOW
this one not sure if it shows but its like a fallen over right parenthesis… looks like a grin… pretty awesome!
literally you write the number of grin syou have and underline it with a little grin, ha!

∞ ∞ 221E MathOp INFINITY
42∞ worth of wine please!

⏑ &metrshort; 23D1 MiscTech METRICAL BREVE
its the cutest little grin
55⏑

 &metrbrevedblac; F717 PUA-10 METRICAL SYMBOL BREVE WITH DOUBLE
doesnt show but its a smiley

The spesmilo character, called spesmilsigno in Esperanto (like monero’s use of esperanto)

looks like an S with a little m in it.

The mill or ( ) an m with a cuthru


of course unicode alchemical symbols would be appropriate too

500🝐 looks like a magic wand

:relaxed:
its just a little unicode smiley face, this would be perfect

:infinity:
its like an infinity symbol in a circle… looks kind of like a smiley… and is the symbol for acid free p aper
I need 699♾! Grin, that acid free paper currency!!! also means PERMANENT PAPER… which is a good symbol for a cashlike currency probably.

:frowning:
this one is hilarious, its like a big sad face

:comet:
looks like a harry potter golden snitch
900☄ please!

now from

:zap:like harry potters lightning bolt
⛀ i think thats supposed to be a coin
:aquarius: mw looking
⚇ a partial smiley
:frowning::relaxed:… first is a sad face second is a smiley… for some reason the sad one is bigger
:slightly_smiling_face:… slightly smiling face… that one renders really well
:frowning: slightly frowning
:slight_smile: ooh this one is good… its the dark version of the smiley
:yin_yang: yin yang… mimble wimble

:watch: a little watch… time is money
1⌚ /second
:hourglass: hourglas… time is still money… 9,000​:hourglass: please!
:sun_with_face: **wow! sun with face… that one is pretty good.**

feeling more and more like picking something simple like the letter G is the wrong choice. what fun to have so much creative freedom…and people may be writing it on checks and the tip line of checks!!

:skull_and_crossbones: skull and cross bones… theres a grin in there somewhere
🕱 another render, supposed to be b lack
࿊ a tibetan symbol

:no_mouth: *WOW symbol for face without a mouth!!!

⚝ a little bit wizardly… the pentagram… ⛥

just a white rectangle ▭
900▭
⧞ infinity negated with a vertical bar
⚲ neuter symbol
⚿ squared key

:rescue_worker_helmet: helmet

:chains:
those are supposed to be chains… that’s kind of cool you know, blockchain.


looks like a magic wand

some more here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Alchemical_symbols
though they are not easily accessible unicode

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mercury_symbols
mercury is a communication symbol… money is a very pure form of communication

some good ones in there.
almost entirely sure that using something as ancient as a latin letter would be a missed opportunity. why wouldnt the currency of the future have an emoji as a symbol??? I mean of course it would. We are desinging the ultimate cash for the digital age, it should look like a product of the internet in every way right?

someone on reddit said the MW-Eyed smiley logo looks too much like a meme… but that is what we are making right, an infectious meme. currency itself is a meme!

will never forgive myself now if we don’t pick something great.

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I would suggest against using Emojis and weird graphical unicode chars.

IMHO a lowercase one strikes much better besides the numbers than an uppercase.

Hence, my personal preference is this:

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Or how about a capital gamma, Γ

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Here’s another take on it:

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it’s a cut through symbol… and the magazine came out on bitcoins genesis day exactly 20 years previous

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Great ideas bouncing around. I would say I’m most in favor of this one.

ǥ

I really like the idea! However I think that having a currency symbol and a logo that looks different might create a lot of confusion for the people that aren’t acquainted with the project.

Here’s what the logo could look like with 0-X’s suggestion.

1 Like