Building the First Grin Exchange

It probably makes more sense to implement a microservice for managing Grin coins so that it can be easily integrated by existing centralized exchange players.

100% with Igno, atomic swap DEX with one trading pair to start would be ultimate infrastructure boon early on. Was thinking there could be checkboxes for fully optional fees that go to development as well.

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does cryptobridge use atomic swaps? Not clear on their homepage how they manage to allow trades between different blockchains. As far as I know this is a "hard’ problem and it would be big news to see they had solved it.

What about https://bisq.network ? P2P over TOR with arbitrators for resolving disputes.

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With the initial rate of inflation, many will see a high price (due to low stock to flow ratio) and dive in, getting hurt by the certain downward price movement as the market matures.

The longer the wait for the first ‘exchange’, the better liquidity will be, the lower inflation will be, the less people will get hurt by the initial price drop.

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@Grinners are you saying Grin would be best launched with no exchange support? That’s an interesting view.

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I doubt it will happen, because if there’s money to be made, people will make it. But yes, as there were no exchanges when Bitcoin first launched, I don’t think it would do any harm, and ultimately help.

Plus while it is not as clear that Grin is profitable to the masses to mine, Nicehash GPU’s won’t immediately flood the chain :slight_smile: When a rush occurs to buy those first coins (when less than 100,000 are even in existence), the market would look absurd, and vastly overpriced, and every man and his dog will dive in and start mining, and ride the price crash down.

Isn’t that how its usually done?

I’ve never watched a coin launch but I’m a speculator and most shitcoins don’t make it to real markets (you can check coin cap and skip 20 pages in; it rapidly gets sad and scamy and horrible) so my theory is there is at least some point in time were its a market maker on a forum with a reputation trading manually

edit// Speaking of manually trading; should there be a thread for building up knowledge of semi-trusted public keys?

Creating a manual blockchain, where you take the identity information of the person above you and sign it trusting the forums anti-spam and history keeping it so theres only one so we can have 100 or so names of people who cared enough about grin to be here now to make the early days of trading easier

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Having access to the website through TOR would match the project’s privacy focus

If you don’t know Bisq please have a look to it:

It is the only privacy protecting, decentralized P2P Fiat exchange out there. No KYC, all traffic routed over Tor (hidden services), Bitcoin Multisig and double security deposit for securing the trade. Bitcoin to Fiat or Bitcoin to any Altcoin.

Bisq would love to add Grin in the upcoming release (in 3 days).
We have a simple process where the altcoin developers can make a pull request with add the coin and an address validation.
https://docs.bisq.network/exchange/howto/list-asset.html
Would be great if a Grin developer could make a PR (otherwise I do it myself but not familiar with address format - so please provide some pointers to address validation rules).

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There are no addresses in Grin so it’s probably not going to be trivial to integrate it in Bisq.

https://docs.bisq.network/exchange/howto/list-asset.html#the-asset-must-not-impose-additional-technical-requirements

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Sorry I did not had time yet to look closer into Grin. So if there is no address how do you send coins to someone else?

There is a brief explanation here and you can find docs about how the grin wallet works here. There is also wallet713 which adds an address-based scheme on top of Grin, by using Grinbox relays.

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Just to make it more clear, what I call an address can be any string which has the function like an address in Bitcoin. A public key can be used as well or a payment code.

Bisq does not implement anything for the asset we only want to have input validation to avoid user mistakes and to have a spam filter for getting too many shitcoins (copy pasters fail to do a PR).

The trade peer receives the address string as text and need to use his altcoin wallet to send the funds. He confirms then the sending in Bisq and the BTC seller receives a message to check in his altcoin wallet if he received it. After confirming receipt in Bisq the trade gets completed.

So all the handling of sending and confirming receipt of the altcoin is a manual process outside of the scope of Bisq. That makes it very easy for us to add any altcoin. In future there are some improvements planned (e.g. use block explorers to check sent/receipt state, integrate local wallets via RPC,…).

@kargakis Thanks for the links!
Actually the Grin tx creation protocol is pretty similar to Bisq trade protocol (both users create in a roundtrip the multisig deposit tx).

So instead an Grin address there is the network address (IP:port). That should be basically enough info for Bisq traders to send/receive Grin. I assume IP4 and IP6 are supported (just asking for validation code).

The message field would be useful to allow matching transactions with trades with same amounts. The Bisq trade ID can be used as message.

Are Tor onion addresses supported as well? Just asking as that would be for sure requested by Bisq users.

Actually after reading a bit more about wallet plugins, it might be an interesting project to add Bisq as plugin and use the Bisq P2P network (Tor hidden services) as network layer for the tx protocol.
Maybe some dev will take that challenge… I might set up a bounty once basic integration is done.

@jaspervdm When do you think your service will be in production?

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Ah and another question: What is the ticker symbol for Grin? I want to get it added in the upcoming release mid of that week in Bisq and we need to assign a ticker.

see VOTE on Grin's currency code

… it seems not decided atm.

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Thanks. I saw GRIN was used already by miners… Would be my favorite as well.

Saw this exchange is gonna support:

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