Thank you, you and all grin community are welcome to participate for GRIN decision making.
A decentralized project thrives on *transparency, community trust, and effective governance. When these things goes off, the project faces declining participation, loss of trust, and lack of clear governance leads to eventually slow adoption and development.
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Governance is tough, how can you solve that problem? Is there any solution? People, users, miners alike have no influence on Grin governance. Only a select few can ultimately make the decisions. Due to the advanced technology, there are a few people who we must trust. But how can we hold them accountable? What happens when they leave/die? How do we remove them? Users have no control over any of these quintessential factors. Why would you hold grin and let your destiny be decided by a few anonymous netizens? The current status of hidden agenda, behind the curtain governance is not trustworthy. If you are going to establish a governance, you need to be public facing, with users and miners alike having influence in governing factors, and transparent currency and agenda decisions. Or else to leave grin alone and remove yourselves from governance and embrace anarchy. Thank you for reading this message.
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Personally, I unironically favor the āembrace anarchyā suggestion.
At this point, it seems the councilsā only purpose is managing the funds donated years ago. While I was in agreement with the suggestion to remerge those wallets and hold them long term, Iām starting to suspect all the political fracas with Americaās āstrategic Bitcoin reserveā is a flashing red bear signal heralding a downturn to come.
Maybe the best thing to do would be discuss and determine the major improvements we want to see with Grin (eg. Apple Silicon miner, atomic swaps, Grin++ node isolation + PIBD, MWixnet integration, official hardware wallet support, etc) and then split the remaining BTC between bounties for each.
With no more fund to manage, the last centralization point would be the official Github which could be migrated off to a community-hosted FOSS alternative and the current repos set to a āreadonlyā mode mirrored from that.
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Per bounties, I know that Luke Parkerās work on FCMP in Monero as well as his own Serai protocol are about wrapped up. Heās previously posted on this forum with regards to the latter, and has extensive experience. Maybe with his new free time heād be interested in working for Grin on an atomic swap solution?
Alternative (or perhaps complimentary?) idea, letās ignore the council-form at the moment (since they just manage money).
We have a dearth of coders, but some very passionate people here. What if we used some of the funds to ābootcampā some community members into Rust developers? Perhaps some of the previous ācore folksā (who canāt accept OC funds by definition) could be enticed with some CC funds to serve as instructors on both Rust in general and the Grin codebase in specific? As much as I dislike meetings, I would certainly attend any sessions along those lines with fervor!
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it is true, Governance is tough.There should be more tolerance to the governors, who had spent the time and energy to work on the grin project
I attended the meeting for the first time last night, and unfortunately I speak average English. I downloaded and registered the keybase software in order to attend the conference.
There is not much motivation in the community to participate in the meeting.Attendance was barely enough of the minimum required number.
embrace anarchy?Will it leave the grin project code unmaintained?There is no interest in governance at the moment,Governors deserve respect for their time and effort.On the other hand, I thought it would be easy to participate in the discussion and governance last night
I havenāt been involved in the community for a long time, and my understanding is not necessarily accurate
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I would like to say I disagree. Governance can be very, very simple. Good governance is facilitating the governance of a project, open discussions leading to good decissions.
Is the power with a few? The keys are indeed with a few, but the decissions are always based on merit of argumements made. It is not that āthe manyā cannot influence decision making, it is that so few chose to do so. If for each time we had discussions on the forum about governance that energy and time instead would have been spend on attending meetings or proposing meeting topics, I believe governance would be much more fruitfull.
To give some examples, anyone can propose agenda topics, and in that sence direct discussion and decission making towards certain goals. Yet, it is very rare for community members to propose agenda topics, they just do not exercise their influencing power. Similarly, historically there are reoccuring requests for more administration or accountability, yet few people actually look at these spending logs and reports and few people voted for continued funding of our groundkeeper who is managing administration and accountability reports.
Having said that, we also have a low participation of CC keyholders and CC members. But this is 
problem, CC members are just like the other community members not motivated to āfacilitateā if no one cares enough to participate in the process 
.
Lastly, I am myself less and less convinced spending time on governance is worth it if there is no one to govern. As long as there are no active developers who want to get paid, I probably can better spend my time writing code for grin than spending that time on governance and administrative tasks.
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@natsu If someone is willing to work on atomic swap, that would be great, I think the bounty for atomic swap by the OC is still open.
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Hm I canāt find an explicit bounty thread, though I see geneās old thread with a funding request.
This is the thread Luke Parker opened a year and a half ago about integrating Grin into Serai. It looks like he had questions but none of the developers wound up answering him.
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I had some private correspondence with him.
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He kindly did some analysis and determined itās just not possible given the way that Sarai works. But itās worth noting that Serai is not the typical order book style DEX. It has some unique properties
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Something like this and a couple others is probably the reason why Grin is hitting ATL everyday.
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The only way Grin goes up in price is through increasing usage. Only way we increase usage is by improving UX. How do we improve UX? Just need passionate devs
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Apart from increasing usage and improving UX,Marketing is also needed,just like#grin mask #Marcus Kernel#Gig advertise grin in X(Twitter).Cryptocurrency users need to be educated,and we could Tell the story of grin coin
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True, but keep in mind that the best marketing is being a respectable person and occasionally mentioning Grin.
Branch out into other communities / hobbies, build bridges that make sense.
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There is unfinished work for this.
Some questions remained unanswered.
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So this wasnāt a bounty, it was a request for funding originating in this topic.
Should we formalize this into a proper bounty? And perhaps reach out to prospective developers to consider picking it up? If Parkerās previous investigations were with regards to Serai integration, perhaps we could re-engage him with just a general atomic swap implementation with no Serai component?
While UX and outreach could be improved, the real risk as I see it at this moment is that Grin is only available on two exchanges - Gate (which isnāt available to Americans, and has a nonstandard memo requirement for deposits), and TradeOgre (which is a gray market and thus could be shuttered by law enforcement at any time). If the latter went down I fear the project would actually die off as itād be fully inaccessible to much of the current crypto market. As such, I think we should prioritize putting money towards getting atomic swaps working ASAP.
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mwc made it possible, maybe @NicolasFlamel can help to make it possible for grin also.
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I didnāt realize this, itās awesome to see! My concern with asking Flamel as well is that he never got paid out for the work on HD wallet support due to the unexpected requirements that werenāt scoped into the initial proposal. But considering heās still occasionally active here letās see!
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OC paid HD wallet bounty.
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Thank you for clarifying, because I almost felt sorry for him, as I also complained how immense was the bounty for literally a nothing app.
For people that donāt know @NicolasFlamel was paid 50000$ to build a Trezor app for Grin.
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