Yeah, I agree. My comment before was that until MWixnet is implemented, calling Grin a privacy coin is false advertisement. I agree MWixnet will change that.
Me and all my criminal brethren cannot wait for Grin’s superior crime power to be unleashed /s 
It’s possible to censor transactions at pool level even in grin, after all you censor utxos and they’re both utxo model blockchains.
I would argue that no coin is truly private so why do you consider monero a private coin? What are the requirements for a coin to be considered private?
This is why we need mwixnet 
The main key is fungibility.
private != privacy btw 
This is what I was referring to (as tromp said, explicitly)
it exposes at least partial holdings of the user
This is solved mostly by Confidential Transactions because for any output, only the owner of the output knows its amount. Therefore, it doesn’t expose partial holdings of users because you can’t ever see amount for an output you don’t own.
Of course there are other privacy concerns which are not solved by this, but that’s a different problem from the one I described.
As an early adopter of p2pool on Monero I’d be ecstatic to be able to run a node for my grin miners. I think bitcoiners made a huge mistake letting the promotion of it fall to the wayside years ago.
Who said anything about Monero?
Any technology which obscures transaction relationships from a third party observer would be a ‘privacy coin’. Grin makes no attempt (yet) to obscure TX relationships. Ring signature and snark based coins do. So under that definition, I would consider Monero, Zcash, etc privacy coins, but Grin is not.
Even Bitcoin with its transparent amounts can be more private than Grin, if you use an mixer with homogenous mix values, such as Whirlpool. Again, I’m not hating on Grin. I’m just trying to make the point that Grin’s privacy features are insufficient.
That was not the point I was trying to make. The main point is that there is no such thing as perfect privacy, and that the closer you want to get to perfect privacy, the higher the costs. I think Grin has a perfect balance in the sense that there is no cost in the transaction throughput, time it takes to scan the blockchain or blockchain bloat for its privacy preserving properties. For example, using tor is not a cost since it does not bloat the blockchain or add much complexity since it tor fails, users can always fall back to sending slate-packs via other channels. If more privacy can be provided without much costs in terms of complexity or blockchain bloat, e.g. using mwixnet, I am all for offering users that choice.
Regarding ‘bad guys’, for adoption it is actually better for grin to be privacy preserving opposed to be a best in class privacy coin since it would give the project a lot of negative press. I would prefer the main narrative/association for grin to be ‘good money/cash’ or being a “good long term store of value” since it appeals more to regular users.
The above is however subjective, just my personal opinion and aim for the project. I know there are many privacy maxies in the community who would prefer to aim for perfect privacy no matter the costs (complexity and blockchain bloat) just like there are UX maxies, who would love to improve the UX of grin at any cost (complexity and blockchain bloat). In the end we try to consolidate all those views to make Grin best in being minimal while balancing these properties.
Afaik Monero doesn’t obscure transaction relationship perfectly though (don’t know the others).
Not sure it’s more private when others can spam you with utxos to trace your transactions (unless you manually pick utxos). Even if using whirlpool makes transactions more private, i wouldn’t say that makes bitcoin more private since it’s not part of the protocol (same as how mwixnet won’t make grin more private, at least that’s how i look at things).
The more veteran people in the monero world have moved away from calling it a privacy coin from what I have noticed.
Like said here:
Monero (and Grin) are really better marketed simply as “currencies for real world use”.
To me, Bitcoin is not even usable except for speculation.
And of course Grin will be more usable with coinswap, payment proofs, etc
I agree. The obfuscation isnt perfect, its statistical, but the fact that it obscures TX relationships even partially, is what makes it a tool to improve privacy.
Zcash for example obscures TX relationships, but many would argue its graph obfuscation isn’t significant enough to thwart many threat actors. I won’t comment on the veracity of that statement, but IMO even if some deem it only a minor obfuscation, the fact that it provides any obfuscation to tx relationships makes it a tool to improve privacy.
Because Grin provides zero obfuscation to TX relationships, and there are no additional tools you can use to obscure the graph (e.g. MWixnet), I don’t think it should be advertised as a privacy tool.
If I didn’t keep seeing people tell others Grin is a privacy coin, I wouldn’t have brought it up. But our community loves to tell the world Grin is a privacy tool, and I think that is misleading to newcomers.
You just can say not 100% private.
We need to define privacy first.
There is no 100% private things at internet first of all.
Yes it is.
Unlikely you can change this statement before we will remove TOR from wallet and MimbleWimble tech, it described itself as privacy-layer.
I think its better for all of us is focusing on development than just arguing 24/7
