Also, please refrain from referencing your locale or newborn child, both emotional and irrational facts, when discussing your value. Your cost of living and family matters are irrelevant here and bringing these up is inappropriate as well.
I’ve closed this topic for now while we discuss how to address this.
I just unlocked this topic unilaterally - don’t make me regret it. Please keep it civil, no name calling or ad hominem.
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I would appreciate it if @Yeastplume choice of language and aggression was made transparent rather than hidden. It is a biased way of hiding the history of my concerns with core demeanor and behavior.
You made your points, some of them have been very disrespectful towards dear valued community members (especially @lehnberg), others, like this one, are off-topic. It has been pointed out to you but you just can’t stop it. From here it’s just painful to watch anymore. If you don’t have anything constructive to contribute to the debate (unfounded allegations against community members are not considered as such) please stop spamming this thread. As @lehnberg already stated you are free to write up a full circled proposal with as much details as you can think of about what exactly this would achieve, how it would work in practice, and why you think it is necessary, in other words: propose something of value or stop spamming this thread and insulting community members. Happy new year.
Kind of ridiculous to ascribe to a diverse group of individuals…
Should I voice my “concern with community demeanor and behavior” because of your rhetoric?
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That is a fair point. You have always been fantastic as have other core members. It was not fair of me to be so broad
It is not off topic to point out the biased and unfair approach to selectively censor their own abusive language. It is in fact incredibly on point with respect to their deceitful behavior. I’d love for you to be specific about disrespectful or unfounded.
He alone has not much weight, as it is just one voice. But if you dare to ask it, what right does the Grin council have to ignore the majority of the community demanding this funding is inappropriate and should be rejected. The knife cuts on two sides then. Does it not?
The proposed salaries are simply retarded and totally out of line with what the market conforms to. And that is coming from a labor affairs manager, who works daily with salaries in a large accounting firm. That also means nothing for sure?
That is why I reject this proposal.
A funding request is simply “fund person X with amount Y for period Z”. Previous funding amounts are basically irrelevant for the purpose of deciding if this specific request should be funded.
Everything else being discussed here is orthogonal to this request. People are free to have concerns and reservations around the way this was asked for or phrased, but these should not and do not affect the underlying request being made. People are free to debate the relative worth of different people but its not really a useful way of thinking about this. People are also free to think of this as some huge unreasonable raise but again its not a useful way of framing this.
This is not a “salary” and it is a mistake to think of this request in terms of a “raise”. Individual needs change, situations change and requirements change over time. This is not a salary but a funds to allow a person to continue working on the project.
Contributors are not working to get paid on this project, but receiving funds to allow them to continue to work. This is a nuanced position but an important one.
So to restate this request in the simplest possible terms -
@lehnberg is requesting GBP 2500 monthly for the three month period Jan, Mar 2020.
Given that Grin would not be where it is today without the incredibly valuable contribution that @lehnberg has tirelessly given to date this is an entirely reasonably request and a strong 
from me.
Happy New Year everyone. Lets push forward into 2020 in a positive way here.
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Fully agree. Quoting a message I wrote yesterday in TG:
It would be easier seeing it all more objectically. It would be best if he could state:
- that are my responsibilities
- its supposed to be x% of full time
- that much I need to do that
- here are my references / link to the update thread
And then a decision if thats ok for the responsibilities and effort or not, regardless of ANY word said before
So well - Imao for the needed skills and the responsibilities if this is more then lets say half time it would be fine for me - thats still close to what many students get working on their PhD, so considering the skills and so on needed to do its not much. Ok for sure he did ask for less before, but now also need to do more and as said: Relatively spoken it may be a rise, but in absolute numbers he is not asking for much.
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I dont see majority of community, only one , two annoyng hienas, who constanly bait Lehnberg ass, without any rights, if they are in development team, or funding investor, i understand , but is not that case.
Week hands admins, i kick away to anybody who bulling someone in this forum , and for me this is a bulling case
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You honestly believe the deceitful nature of the original request, and continued deceitful efforts after discussion and multiple opportunities to rectify, is orthogonal to the request? It seems quite germane. It would be much simpler if such a straight forward request as you suggested was delivered (either originally or upon edits). Instead we observed further deceitful behavior by two council members as well as inappropriate and aggressive language (which has continued to be hidden in yet another deceitful tactic). Keep in mind that the two core members with deceitful behavior in this thread are both funded by this general fund, both have keys to funds and votes on each other’s funding. I hope we can all agree that this is not ideal and opens doors for issues (e.g. quid pro quo, amonng others)
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Here have right, but is not nice how you deal with that.
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I waded into this thead early on to defend a valuable and trusted colleague against a series of rabid and vitriolic attacks, with any truth they may or may not have contained completely overshadowed by the spiteful, arrogant and disrespectful nature in which they were presented.
I knew nothing about this funding request until Daniel posted it and the furore here kicked off, and there is nothing in my post earlier that I believe can be construed as anything other that an evaluation of his character and an appreciation for his ongoing contributions to this project in the face of haranguing such as that demonstrated in this thread. This is then twisted by the same poster to accuse me of somehow being in league with an imagined conspiracy, so I then find myself the subject of a personal attack also accusing me of having a deceitful character and other such nonsense. This was then followed by an arrogant and utterly condescending post informing me of what I may and may not refer to with respect to someone’s personal conditions in the course of this discussion.
I unfortunately lost it at this point, and posted a curt message (now concealed): ‘Who the fuck do you think you are?’ This was ill-advised and done in a flash of anger and frustration, and I apologise to the community for this lapse. Other members of the core team moderated that message and its reply, and I stand duly corrected and humbled in this regard. This of course gives the poster more ammunition that we’re somehow acting ‘deceitfully’, which in reality was the correct moderation action of removing two inflammatory messages that violate community standards and don’t belong in this discussion.
However, I maintain that the personal attacks contained in this thread violated community standards well before this exchange occurred, and I agree completely with @Elephantul that this thread embodies a moderation failure. Rectifying this (hopefully via a completely independent moderation team) is something we’ll be looking to address this year.
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Rabid and vitriolic… you are quite dramatic.
It is disrespect to pretend 2500 GBP = 2500 USD, pretend Daniel didn’t roughly know the exchange rate, pretend Daniel was unaware of the amount he deposited for the last many months was significantly less than 2500 GBP. It’s disrespectful and arrogant to double and triple down on this.
Then you continue the ridiculous assertion that he was unaware that 2500 GBP was higher than previous amounts. You add the suggestion that he was uncompensated before (false) and moved to full time (false). I also never said what you may or may not refer to, I merely pointed out that everyone should refrain from mentioning irrelevant and emotional factoids when requesting funding as it is never appropriate to suggest that your personal choices such as chosen locale or family situation has any basis in the funding of ones work. This is objective and universal, you should be aware of this and not take it personally or emotionally.
Please point out where I implicated you in a conspiracy… You interpret my posts both irrationally and emotionally. I’m pointing out things that need to be pointed out, just because they bother you doesn’t make them inappropriate personal attacks or disrespectful. These interpretations add to my concerns that opinions dissenting from the core are often treated inappropriately
There are 58 responses in this thread. 25 of those are from you @johndavies24. There is nothing new being said here.
Your points are noted.
If I ever found myself in this situation I would take some time to reflect on how effectively I was communicating my concerns.
The core request still stands - X is asking for amount Y over period Z. Putting aside the style and exact wording around how it was asked for - the question is whether we as a community agree with this request or not.
You have made your concerns abundantly clear - please make some room to allow others to have their say. Any single community member should be at significantly less than 45% of the responses to a thread like this.
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I would have brought this case up different too. But that still does not justify such an payment from funds that are donated to Grin. Why not pay market conform salaries?
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This is why I would like to invest more fund in Beam than Grin. No people should work for free or get less than he should. But it is very difficult to judge!