Privacy does not matter

First off, drop your pseudo righteous intellectual behavior. I take no issue in someone trying to educate the benefits of privacy, however ridiculous it is, but that is not what this is really about. If you have not come to understand the importance of privacy, especially in this digital age, you are simply too far behind in any meaningful understanding, and are more than likely a lost cause, and I have no intention or motivation to convince you otherwise, nor is it necessary since evolution will do its thing. Where I take issue is in this false sense of urgency, the real reason you made this post. You are simply a fast talker --someone who articulately and assertively says things faster than they can be assessed as a way of pushing your own agenda past other people’s examination or objections, namely urgency. This thing has barely even started, and the only reason to push something so infantile is to make a quick buck, so again, spare everyone the fake righteous intellectual curiosity. Your “metrics” are completely out of whack, are merely vacuous, and again, I have no intention to convince you otherwise. I don’t need to. These things are either valuable, or not, and no amount of empty narrative engineering will change that. THAT is why Bitcoin puts your position to shame, and THAT is what Grin needs to do as well.

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That is not helpful. And that is a misunderstanding. We have gotten off on the wrong foot from the start. We need a Creative pillar at Grin, just like there is a Research pillar. This is creative research and it does not have the framing to make that clear without this context. So I understand how this is being misconstrued. We are trying to create value here for makers in this community. That’s all. And these conversations are essential to finding our voice, so they will not stop. But we need a creative sandbox here so that everybody knows what we’re doing. I asked for it. I am waiting. I hope that clears up the confusion. I don’t mean to irk you, and I also don’t agree with you. I am replying to you first because it’s important that you join us and contribute. That’s all I want. You have the information we need.

That is every single person on FB and every other addictive exhibition product that has consumed the planet. And every single service they are using that owns their data. We need to reach those people one day. It’s fine if they don’t understand the value of privacy, as long as they use Grin. That is our goal. Participate meaningfully because you can. Our quest has started. We intend to get Grin into the world. This conversation is an endeavor to find that path. It isn’t a strait line. We must have this dialogue. People have to understand Grin. So they use it. And the designers who are responsible for creating the experiences that will promulgate this message and get people to use Grin, need it. I will not say this to you again. Please help us create for Grin. Willingly.

This is not the attitude we need. Remove yourself from this conversation if you believe that the majority of humanity is a lost cause. _

That is not Grin.

  1. You don’t know me.
  2. You’re making a judgement from your confusion. It is offensive now, but I will take it from you to be effective.

I would not be talking openly about anything if I was “pushing your own agenda past other people’s examination or objections.”

You simply are making a judgment about me. I cannot be enticed to work on anything for money and I am known for that.

You are talking to me with a great deal of disrespect, which makes me just want to leave. Then who is here to do this? I know you think that it will just happen for Grin. While they buck the trend and go their own way and break the incentive model, against “logic and reason.” Because they have a vision and that is how I got here. Through dialogue with @0xb100d that led to an intent to FORK! and execute u/katiecharm’s emission model with all the power and might of the second largest research facility and fund in the space. You don’t know me.

There is no money in Grin. But that will not stop it from reaching the real world one day and these conversations are the thicket of the sometimes uncomfortable dialogue that we have to have to find our way there.

That will happen because there are people who understand what Grin is and have come to serve it. I will ignore you from this point on.

You have no idea what Grin needs to do if you do not see the necessity of communicating what it does to the world and you have no intention to help anybody understand.

I put effort into you. It was a waste of time.

I should have communicated with the people who are creating value here instead of trying to derail it and take away. @Mopsus @frodo @iminegrin @MerlinsBeard erlinsbeard @gussulliman @monkyyy @Grin1

You have already done damamge by using my time. Please just go.


I cannot begin to tell you how offensive this was for me. If I needed to make a quick buck I would not be spending my energy on Grin. We endeavor to find its meaning here. That is all. Its story is the most powerful thing it has. I intend to bring it out on its face.

Ready Player 1… without Privacy there would be no game play to began with.

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That is a good point. And we will discuss the end game. Because there is a point to all of this. No great story is without a great end. We will define that vision together. It means a lot of different things to everybody here. And we need synthesize that in the most effective balance to create the effect we want:

Use Grin

We have not materilized that formula yet, but it will come to us thorough sharing ideas and cross pollinating. It will come. We just need to keep talking.

@BoSanti Also, I would like you to come back and contribute. We can chat privately if you want to express anything I need hear that way. I think you are valuable to this conversation.

You have strong views. There are great ideas in your head. They will stay there unless you help us create the paradigm. Come back with new eyes and the willingness to help us create. Please.

Apparently being able to handle “thought rockets” amounts to cries of being offended, and plugging your ears. You’re worried about selling, or being sold on the idea of Grin, which is entirely unnecessary (again, see Bitcoin), let alone it being necessary now. As I have already stated, privacy and fungibility are necessary components of freedom and to transact freely, but you couldn’t even understand this, and needed examples. This is why Grin is here, for reasons you seemingly do not understand; freedom. You want to learn what that is? Experience it. Use Grin. You will find no better teacher. And whoa if that takes time.

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Ready, player 2? Nobody knows grin. Well, maybe we know grin, or some aspect of it. But I strongly doubt that anybody knows all grin’s aspects. Simply because far from all aspects are public. And we like privacy.
So, the thread begun with a taunt: “Privacy does not matter”. And it’s been said before; “privacy is dead”. And refuted. But did your buddy scrolling Facebook or Instagram notice any of that?

We think grin is for them, and that it cannot wait 7+ years until crypto moves from “dirty talk” to something like prepaid plastic pay cards, then another few years for people to begin adopting. Right?

I’m ready to teach, initially by using grin and talking about it whenever possible.


I don’t think so.

Bitcoin is being used for:

  • tipping
  • donating
  • paying for products/services
  • sending money abroad
  • speculating
  • hoarding

Of these last two, probably you are not a fan. Me neither. However, saying bitcoin is never used is just ridiculous.

Are you in touch with reality?

Moon is not the mission now. I would say, the mission of Bitcoin is to be the soundest money of all. Keep the supply fixed. Never change fundamentally. And facilitate small payments via layer two solutions (Lightning Network).

You are unbelievably wrong.

Either Bitcoin will employ what makes Grin special, that is mimblwimble, or it will enable scalability and privacy via other means (Lightning Network, coinjoins, paynyms, etc.). And Grin will mostly become irrelevant in the long run.

In the kingdom of cryptocurrencies, every other crypto competes with the apex predator, Bitcoin.

This might be somewhat different for Ethereum, as its primary mission is not payments, but rather computing.

The only way Grin wins is, it gets popular, usable, and battle-tested very fast that Bitcoin doesn’t get the reaction time.

But I see this chance very slim.

Huh? Haven’t you said Grin is not competing?

What are you trying to say? Nobody asked you to do anything. You simply took your own action at your own peril.

I would say, tune down that attitude of yours. You are acting like neither @BoSanti nor anyone else but you care for the benefit of Grin. That is just irritating.


Yes, addressing @BoSanti over @Mopsus seemed like a waste of time. but it did create value ultimately. Even the disruptors have value. They don’t know what the eyes that are looking at this will do with the information.

I only have so much time to give to Grin, so wasting it on a disruptor feels very annoying in the moment and also afterwards.

Telling me that Grin will teach me everything I need to know about it–surely that is not the case. And furthermore anybody can say “Use Grin.” There may be a handful of people who come here to help that have experience with doing this at any kind of significant level. There is no way to measure my ability from my whining. :slight_smile: But please try and bear with me. These conversations will yield a lot of value.The value will become obvious when we materialize things from these conversations, but they will certainly lead us all to a deeper understanding of Grin, which is what we want.

We don’t have a mission statement, but we’ll get one, it will be shitty shooting from the hip the way we are, and then we will do it again from the work that all of us are doing here, and it will be at the level.

We both have to deal. I will try not to be a whiner next time @BoSanti comes to town.

Nobody uses it. A tiny fraction of the population on earth have touched it, can touch it, or even know what it is. Very small infinitesimal fraction. When you look at it like that, it really affects your view.

These are things for Bitcoin to aspire to. Bitcoin is for speculating. Maybe it becomes the money you are describing, but I disagree, and that is the point of Grin. The purpose of Grin is to become the world currency system that Bitcoin sought to be. It was experiment 1. Do you think it is successful?

I don’t know. I am in full agreement with things that I thought were crazy not too long ago.


We have this common.

Again, I understand this is the thought from people who believe that the Peirce-Arrow is the wave of the future. I love having that conversation, but we’re here to talk about how to achieve what Bitcoin did not, and cannot, for Grin

With its extreme consolidation, and given the fact that nobody on the planet uses it aside for a tiny percentage of people who gamble with it currently, Bitcoin has a serious existential problem if it wanted to become the MOE/world currency that you are describing. That is the point of Grin. It’s the point of this emission schedule.

Exactly. And replace “wins” with “survives.”

Grin is not competing with Bitcoin’s use case. However, in order for Grin to survive it must be competitive with everything (until it gets out of here) lest if fall into a liquidity trap and get 51% attacked to death in a downward spiral.I never stop thinking about that because I have all my friends to remind me about it. haha!

You don’t sound like you care much for Grin’s benefit…

…You obviously do. And you don’t think Grin is a testnet for Bitcoin hopefully.


Bitcoin has a major psychological barrier to overcome, which it can. The Bitcoin CEO should hire the same team that tired to reconstitute the brand equity of Paris Hilton and turn her into Hedy Lamar. That was a complete failure, but they can bring what they learned to this equally impossible undertaking.

Grin is Grin. We have a fresh start with this one.

Thank you for making it clear that you are inescapably ignorant and out of your league, or the ridiculous scamming narrative engineer I assumed you to be.

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That was joke @BoSanti. But thanks for your return. I know I can always count on you.

Also, you have been asked to elaborate on your ideas, so if you don’t want to do that, find something else to do. You could be totally helpful if you wanted to be.

Ridiculous scamming narrative engineer it is then.

“If you don’t believe it or don’t get it, I don’t have the time to try to convince you, sorry.” - Bitcoin CEO

The computer did not sell itself. Nobody needed one. Nobody wanted one. That’s kind of where we are with cryptocurrency, and worse; people think it’s all of these bad things. There is a lot of misunderstanding and there is no desire to use it–like the computer, until it meant something to use one.

Where did that come from @BoSanti? Like Facebook, there was more than *just utility that resulted in a global phenomenon.

If you want to change the world with your ideas, then you have to communicate them effectively. That’s all we’re doing. There is nothing to scam. It is not my narrative.

It’s Grin’s

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and quit trying to dm me ya creepy fool.