I need to hear more from @ddadybayo to give my final thoughts. Personally, if I was approaching a community with a figure in mind for funding, I’d already have a detailed breakdown of how I arrived at that figure. Similar to going to a bank with a business plan. I also need to know more about their vision for the future and how they see Grin fitting in to it
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Thank you all for participating in this discussion. I want to start by pointing out that, as of today, there is no active mobile wallet solution that supports Grin. From our perspective, adoption should start not with exchange listings, which provide little technical value, but with accessible wallets that lower the barrier to entry.
What we’re offering is not just an integration, but the development of native mobile libraries for Grin from scratch something that will benefit not only Unstoppable, but any other mobile wallet looking to support Grin in the future. These libraries would be open-source and reusable, which could greatly simplify future integrations by other teams. That’s why this isn’t just a one-off job it’s foundational work that requires time, expertise, and long-term maintenance.
The budget we proposed doesn’t even fully cover our costs the work involves building native infrastructure, full integration into Unstoppable, and ongoing support. That said, if the community believes this type of collaboration is too expensive, I completely understand and would encourage you to find another team capable of delivering the same level of work for less.
For us, this is not just a bounty request, but the first step in what we hope will become a long-term collaboration with the Grin community. Our team includes 10 experienced developers, many of whom have worked extensively with UTXO-based chains as well as EVM networks. For example, we were the first team in the world to build a native SPV Bitcoin library for both iOS and Android from scratch.
We see this as a win-win opportunity: a meaningful integration for Grin, and a chance for Unstoppable to support a truly unique protocol.
If the Grin ecosystem wants to move forward, it’s important to start collaborating with highly capable teams not only to build missing tools like wallets, but also to raise awareness around real technical challenges that still need to be solved. I agree that features like multisig and atomic swaps are essential for Grin’s future, but to get there, we have to start somewhere.
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@ddadybayo , thanks for reaching Grin Community.
Unstoppable has an active team and have a large range of libraries, frameworks developed for ios and android. I think collobrating with an experienced team like this will benefit Grin in long term.
I understand some of the community members disliked that other coins are integrated free of charge while Grin is asked for funds. But we can find a way for supporting unstoppable team working on Grin.
@ddadybayo , in addition to what Ardocrat suggested, we have a wishlist on grincc community site, have you checked it ?
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My views:
Positive: At least we have attracted a mobile wallet that already had active users
Negative: We have to pay the ‘fee’ for integration
I think we can keep something in balance as grin community is small, like bargaining to reduce the funding proposal, requesting a clear roadmap or only pay once specific tasks have been done. We got old donation and should ‘try’ new approach.
When we compare that other coins were integrated for free except grin, it’s not really same because the position is different as nobody uses grin at the moment.
Hope it won’t upset current dedicated developer of grin without asking for fund.
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We have the rule: we don’t pay for listing.
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Unstoppable wallet hasn’t been a member of the community, they haven’t provided any help for GRIN before, all they did was find out about GRIN funds and provided a funding request.
GRIN is at ATL right now, and we are seeking a wallet integration, when we have like three other broken wallets.
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It is not important whether people from Unstoppable wallet have made contributions before or not as long as payment is made upon delivery and not beforehand.
As long as they provide bang for buck, we should be happy with any developer contribution.
What we should be discussing:
What this discussion should focus on is if there is such a “bang for the buck” contribution and what that cintribution should be.
Is that a) only mobile wallet libraries for Grin, b) some new feature such as a mobile wallet with Dex ability, c) extending grin wallet to support proper BIP39 derivation + password, d) should it be a lightnode or full node integration in their wallet, e) something else.
I think the above examples are the directions we should be exploring unless we think Grin simply is not ready yet. Regarding “we do not pay for listing”, no we do not pay for listing. But Unstopable wallet is a non-custodial FOSS wallet that also suports trading. We should not treat it as an exchange listing request but as a wallet development request in my opinion. If that somehow enables trading of grin, that would be a large bonus.
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As long as Unstoppable Wallet devs will provide the code that will be of value to the Grin community, I’m in favour of paying them for the effort and couldn’t care less if their previous job was paid for or free of charge. BTC donated by the donors was meant to be put to good use i.e. to be spent on developers and not on housekeeping or in idle mode indefinitely.
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hi,dan.
thank you for coming here for help,as for funding,do you accept grin as all or in part payment?
wish Unstoppable Wallet and grin be successful in the furture.
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I agree that the discussion should focus on the concrete value of the contribution and the kind of impact it can have for the Grin ecosystem.
Let me outline how we at Unstoppable view the scope of the integration and how it aligns with your suggestions:
a) Native mobile libraries
Our proposal goes beyond just “adding Grin” - we’re offering to build native libraries for both iOS and Android from scratch. At the moment, no such mobile-native libraries exist for Grin.
One of the key advantages of Unstoppable Wallet is our fully native architecture, which enables much better performance, security, and responsiveness compared to cross-platform frameworks like Flutter or React Native a common choice among other wallets.
b) DEX functionality
We would love to integrate a DEX for Grin if there was one available and actively maintained. Currently, Unstoppable supports several DEX integrations for EVM chains such as Uniswap, 1inch, PancakeSwap — and we’re adding Thorchain in the upcoming sprint.
Unfortunately, the Grin ecosystem doesn’t yet have a working DEX, which means this feature isn’t currently feasible. We’re more than happy to integrate one in the future if the community develops such a solution.
c) BIP39 + Passphrase
We’ve supported BIP39 with passphrase since version 0.21 (Release notes here).
If Grin eventually adopts a standard derivation path and clearly documents the format, we will be glad to support it as well. We’re strong advocates for flexibility and enhanced user security.
d) Node setup
Our current plan is to integrate Grin with a light node approach, but we’re also open to enabling users to connect to custom full nodes in the future. It’s something we can evaluate further depending on user needs and technical feasibility.
Additional privacy-focused features
Unstoppable Wallet already includes a variety of privacy-enhancing features that align well with the ethos of Grin. These include:
- Duress Mode, which allows users to hide sensitive assets or accounts under stress.
- Built-in TOR VPN on Android and F-Droid versions, giving users more anonymity and control when managing their assets.
a) Can you please expand what your “mobile library” is supposed to help developers? You know we have Grim on all platforms (made by a community member for free) and before that there were multiple wallets on Android?
b) No DEX? You said there was a DEX.
c) What?
d) OK
If this goes forward I am asking politely the CC to donate the funds immediately to a charity of choice.
No, I am the only person who dropped that word in this discussion 
.
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I don’t know much about the technical aspects, but it looks like a lot of work is going to work。I have a question about the market：How many active users does Unstoppable Wallet currently have？
However, I believe there may be some misunderstanding here, likely due to a lack of deeper technical background - so I’ll try to clarify.
First, while Grim is indeed an actively maintained project and a great effort by the community, it’s a standalone wallet not a modular mobile library intended for reuse or integration into third-party wallets. Earlier Android wallets also fall into this category, and unfortunately, most of them are now outdated or unmaintained.
Second, Unstoppable Wallet is a fully native mobile app written in Kotlin for Android and Swift for iOS. We don’t use Flutter or React Native, which means we cannot just drop in web-based or cross-platform solutions. Integration must follow our internal architecture standards, performance constraints, and security models. This includes wallet initialization, key derivation, transaction lifecycle management, Tor support, and custom UI layers - all of which must be implemented from scratch.
Third and this is key - the majority of existing community-built solutions are not structured or documented in a way that makes them suitable for safe reuse. In our experience, it’s actually more efficient, secure, and maintainable to build production-grade libraries from the ground up than to adapt poorly documented or monolithic codebases.
So when we mention building “mobile libraries,” we’re not referring to wrapping legacy code - we’re talking about building clean, modular, reusable components that can serve both our wallet and other future integrations in the Grin ecosystem.
Lastly, I’d kindly suggest that any evaluation of the cost or complexity of this work be based on the actual technical requirements involved. It’s important that the conversation remains grounded in the technical realities - not assumptions.
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On average, Unstoppable has around 50,000 monthly active users across iOS and Android platforms. That’s just the visible part. A significant share of our privacy-minded users install the app via F-Droid or direct APK, where tracking is either minimal or intentionally absent by design. So while we can’t provide precise metrics for that segment, it’s safe to say the real usage is notably higher.
Unstoppable attracts a crowd that values self-custody, open-source software, and censorship resistance - and we’ve been building for them since day one. This makes it a natural match for protocols like Grin.
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Thanks for being open to community feedback on where to focus your efforts for Grin
i think we better focus on ardocrat’s valuable points, a significant part of the community strongly believes that Multisignature support is a critical, core priority for Grin right now.
DEX integration is, something most of us in the community are eagaer to see.This could even become a feature within your wallet and it is both win win.
If your team could help bring this Multisig functionality to life – perhaps by building on that existing work or integrating it, would be a massive win for the Grin ecosystem and directly address a major desire from the community. It’s a feature many “Grinners” are truly rooting for.
Maybe this would be a highly impactful area for your team to contribute to, we can work long term together.
This integration to wallet and libraries sure a work, preferring long time commitment and work both benefits us more.
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If I got it right, they are going to implement Android and iOS libraries that can be re-used by other mobile developers.
As an example, I found their implementations of Bitcoin libraries for Android and iOS:
This is well documented with the examples how to use the libaries. Other (minor) cryptocurrencies libraries are not that well documented on their GitHub though.
If they implement Android and iOS libraries for Grin and if they document it well, then it is already worth considering to fund the development, even without wallet integration.
For those who are against the proposal, and think we shouldn’t pay for wallet integrations in general, you could trick your mind by thinking that we are paying $60k for Kotlin(Android) and Swift(iOS) libraries for Grin, not for wallet integration and it is up to Unstoppable wallet to integrate these newly created libaries into the wallet or not 
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It means you need to maintain your app all the time to follow their standards at UI/and so on, tomorrow they can drop all code and go to Rust, converting it with AI, like they are doing it with C/C++, by using Native applications (bu running it like a game) you dont need to maintain Android/iOS UI stack.
That means you want to rewrite Grin in Java/Kotlin and Swift, its hard work and can be waste of time as mentioned above, wrapper can be done with FFI and code generator, we have also Python implementation GitHub - grinventions/mimblewimble-py: Pure Python implementation of Mimblewimble protocol for Grin cryptocurrency.
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One technical question arised after an internal discussion.
@ddadybayo How are you going to implement grin wallet functionality into your libraries? Are you going to re-use (wrap) grin-wallet code (Rust) or re-write it in Swift and Kotlin?
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We do not intend to wrap or bind the existing grin-wallet Rust code via FFI. Instead, we plan to implement native libraries in Swift (iOS) and Kotlin (Android) from scratch. This decision is based on several key factors:
- Architectural Consistency
Unstoppable Wallet is a fully native, high-performance application with strict architectural guidelines. Introducing foreign Rust code via FFI would violate our threading, memory, and security models, and significantly complicate maintainability and long-term support. - Performance & UX Constraints
Mobile platforms have specific constraints around memory, background execution, and concurrency. A clean native implementation allows us to fully optimize for these environments — especially important for privacy-preserving chains like Grin, where node communication and slatepack handling are sensitive to latency and user flow. - Security & Isolation
Crypto wallets are attack surfaces. Having auditable, self-contained code written in platform-native languages greatly improves our ability to harden the application against edge-case vulnerabilities and bugs. Relying on opaque bindings to a foreign codebase would introduce risk. - Codebase Maturity & Documentation Gaps
Whilegrin-walletis functional, its documentation is sparse, and the internal architecture (e.g., around transaction construction, slatepack workflows, and keychain derivation) isn’t easily reusable or modularized for third-party consumption. We’ve assessed the codebase and determined that greenfield implementation is more predictable in terms of delivery and maintainability.
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