Financial tools built for Grin

Hey Grinners,

Here is a small team of college developers also happen to be grin fans. We have been looking Grin for few months and no doubt we are really interested in it.

We recently started to do research on topics like how financial tools (i.e. centralised exchanges, market prediction, etc) should look like on Grin (a really great tech for payment). Our team would really love you to share with us any fantasies and crazy ideas that ever pop up in your mind and could happen on grin. You name it, we make it. (if we can :slight_smile:) Any idea that draws our attention would be on our toy yet working exchange:

Please share your valuable opinion. Let’s build this big playground together for all the grin lovers.

Little goblins

P.S. We currently deploy our service at a cheap server, so NOT FEE!! Feel free to play.
P.S. We are here too: Telegram


You name it, we make it.

Trustless margin trading

Trustless drop in credit card replacements

Sex robots

A design for simple self biulding machines that can survive space travel.

Time machine

A general funtion solver

Friendly ai

A decenteralize YouTube replacement that user friendly

Good software paradiums where oses are correct for once, and not piling shit on shit like the whole web thing poeple have going

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We put our to-do/working list here. Check it out!

The absolute cheapest hardware wallet(s) possible (like a few $). An order book and atomic swap tool. Also a payment solution for international contractors. Lightning network. A map of the grin network with propagation stats.


This is a serious post please keep your ideas related to the topic

I could berate them for promising to do whatever people want with scriptless scripts being the confusing mess they are, or I could make a joke that keeps future people considering what is actually possible. I went with the later as I am a polite contentious human being.

The poison is in the dosage, and sometimes the immuno response kicks in at a set levels meaning sometimes a increasing the does of a substance makes it less toxic; And I felt that maybe my joke about “trustless margin trading” could go over poeples head

you are correct, probably it’s not the most appropriate words to show how hungry are we looking for inspiring ideas.

You probably shouldn’t be looking for “inspiration”, scriptless scripts are going to be lagging behind well script simply due to complexity, let the guy with the fire do the trail blazing if your carring the map making tools… or a better metaphor

If your a fancy math person that wants to help you should probably be getting scriptless scripts up to par, so lightning, multisig, maybe tether if you believe its helping the ecosystem.

Also the context to the joke here is that I’m not polite

Does the HW-wallet not need to be performant enough to process the whole UTXO set (assuming cold storage) as opposed to merely signing transactions?

Yes, you are right. As my browser complained about a revoked certificate at , I didn´t even bother the check, if it could be legit. So being serious for a moment:


  • easy UI for file exchange and grinbox integration
  • LN integration

I am not so sure if it is necessary to set the goals so high ATM though. IMHO there are pretty essential things which need to be solved first. The most important thing is to make people want to use Grin at all and this is mainly an issue of UI. It is a general problem in this space and Grin is definitely one of the more serious patients here. So Grin will certainly profit the most right now, if one makes it easy and foolproof to use. If there is a good GUI-wallet (and maybe later a 1-click Raspi node) you will certainly gain a lot more attention from the average user. I am not sure, if Grin needs a dedicated HW-wallet though or if it could be enough to work on the integration of an existing one.
So most things are not necessary to be addressed by an exchange itself. For this part it would be important to integrate a simple transfer solution. Besides Bittrex being an average experience, their Interface for the transaction file is not to bad. At least the most friendly I have seen so far. Surely this can be done better though.
At last, I don´t think it is so straight forward to base the exchange on ETH. If you really want to stand out and you are not going into some DEX experiment, why not integrate LN (BTC)?
This would make the thing far more interesting.

@igno.peverell: This is what you are suggesting, right? Or are you really talking about Grin on LN?
@MerlinsBeard: For my understanding a HW-wallet only stores the keys and does not need to care about any UTXO. Your wallet software can re-scan the chain anytime.

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How is your wallet software supposed to scan the UTXO set without your private key when there are no addresses or amounts?

In bitcoin “HD” wallets, exist which can generate multiple addresses form a single key; and when you import a “HD” wallet using this method it will auto generate the “next” wallets until a large number say 100 of the “next” wallets are empty and have never been used. While adding any it finds with coins to a user friendly list.

While transaction pruning makes this less reliable I would think you just generate your secrets for transactions in the same way but for a larger number like 10000? so the wallet only fails if you really really heavily use in a it and the chain is heavily pruned in just the right way. But the principal should be the same, you have magic number generator that has its math check forward and back for security concerns, you generate transaction secrets and check it vs the utxo set for unspent outputs until you have a large dry spell that you assume means the user hasn’t been in this space with a different wallet.

I have identified the biggest issue in the crypto space. It is ‘privacy & price discovery’ at a shopping cart level of financial transactions online for physical goods that also need delivery. Bitcoin has been un usable and here is why: The ‘secretive’ aspects of crypto makes the users unwilling or unlikely to submit private info such as mailing address attached to their crypto transactions. It’s unsafe at the moment. Using credit card style checkout navigation panels on traditional sites do not come close to offering solutions to establish trust of a crypto user. If you role play from the point of view of a Grin user needing to make a purchase online you can see where the road blocks are: 1) knowing how much something cost? 2) how to trust the vendor with the transaction, but further more, how to trust them when attaching personal mailing info?

Price discovery of physical goods can’t be done at the moment because using two moving coin prices to assign a fixed value to something in the real world is too complex to be realistic.

Here are the action items to fix this is:

• Grin Pricing widget for displaying realtime prices for products and services using Grin (with a fixed USD amount that the vendor can update without needing to know BTC conversions of the entire store).

• A 3-part checkout for customers with ability to encrypt private address/shipping info unhinged from the payment transaction.

Grin is the best hope in this world to solving these roadblocks.
My question is could a Grin transaction (or invoice) type be created that is a ‘3-part slate’? The final ticket would be encrypted mailing/shipping details for the vendor to complete the shopping cart order with some options to customize how much info, or how long the info, is shared when on shopping sprees.

This is already encrypted in nearly all shopping carts via SSL.

Based on your various posts, you seem to have the idea that the slate can be a value-add, but I see it as a disadvantage versus other cryptocoins which support non-interactive payments. Would love to hear an example of how a slate could be more useful than just using out-of-band communication.

It is a value added unique to grin feature that has not been fully realize yet because we are seeing it wrong. I’m thinking the future will be everyone will have their on products/shops that need pricing, invoices, payment, logistics, chat, all private and on one app. The invoice part may be the key element long term to empower safe transactions of private info you don’t want attached to crypto. Perhaps the address info file sent would delete after 15 mins or be locked after one time use? SSL is a mess and the the whole thing needs a fresh designed approach.

We’ve sold ~$10,000 USD worth of grin merch so far through and more than 90% was cryptocurrency purchases. We use a plugin, which does auto rate pricing and even discounts. Most people have used monero for their purchases, which more or less totally separates their payment info from their address/identity, it’s pretty great. Even paying in something transparent like bitcoin, only coin payments knows their btc address, and only TMGOX knows their shipping address, which keeps things nicely decentralized and compartmentalized.

We’ve been eagerly following and waiting to integrate and test cycle42’s grin payment gateway, which works much the same way. Should be implemented any week now.

This is actually one of the few problems that I think actually has been solved mostly. It is just as easy to use coinpayments as a point of sale service in a store as well if you have a tablet or computer, though i’ve Not tried it.

Do you have more info on this? I can’t find anything on their website.

I think @hashmap is waiting to announce… hope I am not spoiling the surprise. It looks really good though and already functions as a wordpress plugin.

It will be anounced next week, we hope to have it working in mainnet in 1-2 weeks. At first a centralized, fully managed service will be released, in a month or so we plan to deliver a self-hosted, easy to install personal edition (single merchant).