# Where is the Grin “no” list? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [September 8, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195 "2024-09-08T15:15:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/1 "2024-09-08T15:15:06Z")
- no ring signatures - No asic resistance - No addresses Etc I thought this list used to be on the main website, but idk where it is now. Is it on a GitHub gist somewhere now? ---
**Author:** ![noobvie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@noobvie](https://forum.grin.mw/u/noobvie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/2 "2024-09-08T17:46:04Z")
Here [https://youtu.be/trluaEdH7Ac?t=332](https://youtu.be/trluaEdH7Ac?t=332) ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/3 "2024-09-08T18:54:23Z")
> **[No this, no that](https://github.com/mimblewimble/docs/wiki/No-this%2C-no-that)** > > Documentation for Grin and Mimblewimble. Contribute to mimblewimble/docs development by creating an account on GitHub. ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/4 "2024-09-08T20:13:33Z")
Yes! ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/3/368942afa19686326ec3eeda774c89dec5b72704.jpeg) This used to be on the [https://grin.mw](https://grin.mw) website, right? Or it used to be on _a_ website, maybe a different one. ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/5 "2024-09-08T20:20:20Z")
You added - no symmetric PoW - no ordinals (could be covered under spam or NFTs, but nice to call this out specifically) - no NFTs You removed - no hashcash (not sure what this is) - no dev fee (covered under mining tax?) - no paid exchange listings (covered under partnerships?) ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/6 "2024-09-08T20:45:39Z")
Hashcash is _the_ symmetric PoW, where symmetry means that a solution attempt is the same as a verification. Both compute a hash. In assymetric PoW like cuckoo cycle (or equihash) a solution attempt requires lots of memory to find (or fail to find) a solution (or more than one), while solutions can be verified instantly without memory. mining tax indeed covers dev fees, and paid exchange listings can indeed be considered a partnership. ---
**Author:** ![grinmonk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/grinmonk/32/5587_2.png) [@grinmonk](https://forum.grin.mw/u/grinmonk)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 10:14am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/7 "2024-09-09T10:14:37Z")
Someone please put this on a T-shirt so I can order it. This no list makes it so abundantly clear what distinguishes Grin from the meriad bullshit money grab projects that are out there. Maybe a T-shirt should have on one side all the no’s and on the other side all the yes’s, e.g. minimal, fair, scalable, privacy preserving, etc. Is there a yes list somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/8 "2024-09-09T15:12:06Z")
Excellent idea. I would just put the no list on the back of the shirt and grin logo on the front with maybe “1 coin per second, forever” in small text under it maybe. The “via negativa” is often an easier way to define something. I haven’t seen any other project utilize it. I’ll try to design something this afternoon ---
**Author:** ![transatoshi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/transatoshi/32/6247_2.png) [@transatoshi](https://forum.grin.mw/u/transatoshi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/9 "2024-09-09T15:20:29Z")
OG: ![1000003458](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/6/6808d9e695fcfe6c40eb8daf87bc2c6a0e873d8b.png) My version: ![1000003459](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/a/a6e587aee578cbd919cc2f3bbc79475fa5463307.png) ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/10 "2024-09-09T16:04:56Z")
The more I think about it, the more I like Tromp’s as it is now. Two reasons: 1. Some of the extra clarity makes points more attractive. Like “no _on-chain_ addresses” is more interesting than “no addresses”. Monero could technically claim “no addresses” as well. 2. Some of the duplication of points is good for a t-shirt because we want people to be able to see specific phrases that they recognize and know instantly what they mean. Like “no room for spam” is the same as “no ordinals”, but someone might not care what “spam” is, but they might know instantly what “ordinals” are and be like “okay interesting”. Or they might recognize “premine” but the acronym “ICO” doesn’t immediately jump out at them ---
**Author:** ![Anynomous](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/anynomous/32/2928_2.png) [@Anynomous](https://forum.grin.mw/u/Anynomous)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/11 "2024-09-09T16:47:55Z")
The “no BS” is a good one at end since it encapsulates many of the previous points. ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/12 "2024-09-09T17:33:02Z")
Tromp changed to “no drama” perhaps just because it’s less crass. But “bs” better encapsulates “extra crap that is added on”, which also emphasizes simplicity ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/13 "2024-09-09T18:37:16Z")
I seem to remember adding “no drama” before there was any mention of bs. But since the latter sounds better, I just changed it. And also added “no bloat” for good measure… ---
**Author:** ![transatoshi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/transatoshi/32/6247_2.png) [@transatoshi](https://forum.grin.mw/u/transatoshi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/14 "2024-09-09T18:55:06Z")
I agree Tromp’s is better, I just thought my revisions may appeal more to certain types who might find his less “professional” with the bs and moon boy mentions. Good point on the addresses, I’ll add on-chain since you’re right that it is more concise and can’t be compared with non-MW solutions. ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/15 "2024-09-09T19:34:31Z")
> [@transatoshi](#): > > and moon boy mentions. I never mentioned that. ---
**Author:** ![transatoshi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/transatoshi/32/6247_2.png) [@transatoshi](https://forum.grin.mw/u/transatoshi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/16 "2024-09-09T22:30:43Z")
My mistake, I missed the context that they meant your Github link, I thought the OG meme picture was yours and that they meant that for comparison. Moon boys is in the bottrom left of the old meme. Mind if i use the list for a sticker? ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/17 "2024-09-10T07:10:09Z")
Other people made their own version of the list. > [@transatoshi](#): > > mind if i use the list for a sticker? Not at all… ---
**Author:** ![trab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f04885/32.png) [@trab](https://forum.grin.mw/u/trab)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/18 "2024-09-10T19:33:40Z")
Thoughts on this? I realized that the triple column just doesn’t work on a shirt as well as a double column. ![front of white shirt](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/1/190f9bae73f4d41ac6c5b077f183e31bed6c1732.png) ![back of white shirt](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/c/cc2ea11ba924e841633d5a6cd5a6c06782d60b08.jpeg) ![front of black shirt](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/a/a9b11d77f0aefc19cc5ac202948d7502888272c1.jpeg) ![back of black shirt](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/3/37d6a2c2d3f4da72f6163646ca7bc675ceaa3e1e.jpeg) Should there be a link to the website like “grin.mw” somewhere? I can just upload the assets I used for these so anyone can print them themselves. I have no interest in making money off of these. @grinmonk ---
**Author:** ![grinmonk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/grinmonk/32/5587_2.png) [@grinmonk](https://forum.grin.mw/u/grinmonk)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 7:15am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/19 "2024-09-11T07:15:29Z")
The link could be center below the no’s. Perhaps the front with color logo would be even nicer, but cost would go up probably. Maybe collect and share them. Any suggestions for good and affordable print shops are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Anynomous](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/anynomous/32/2928_2.png) [@Anynomous](https://forum.grin.mw/u/Anynomous)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2024, 7:53am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195/20 "2024-09-11T07:53:00Z")
@trab I like the minimal design. Linking to the website would help anyone who is interested to dive in, so that would be a good addition to the design. I get what you mean, three columns would result in very poor readability. If you want to upload the designs somewhere, you can share them here: > **[hub/marketing at main · grincc/hub](https://github.com/grincc/hub/tree/main/marketing)** > > GRIN scripts and tools . Contribute to grincc/hub development by creating an account on GitHub. You can add a folder for T-shirt design. [Next page](https://forum.grin.mw/t/where-is-the-grin-no-list/11195.md?page=2)