# Use Grin Coin as a reserve for more Advanced Fair Tokens **URL:** \ **Category:** Research\ **Created:** [June 10, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579 "2023-06-10T13:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![minexpert](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/minexpert/32/2656_2.png) [@minexpert](https://forum.grin.mw/u/minexpert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:45am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/41 "2023-07-12T08:45:40Z")
> [@tromp](#): > > Unlike you, Igno was not preoccupied with price and marketcap. Do you really believe this? I m asking serious. When Igno was thinking about inflation modeling, is it possible not to have guess of price and marketcap. Tromp, I guess you should remember you that we live in the age of technology. The speed of development of technology is exponentially. The pace of development is faster each year than the previous one. If he knew it would drop to $5 million, if he knew 4.5 years of development would bottom out, if he knew that Core developers would leave one by one, do you think he would have chosen this policy? Still not enough for understanding? While other projects developed over this 4.5-year period, Grin’s development rate decreased exponentially. This is what Ignotus want? You know what you miss, Ignotus thought that this unique structure would exceed a significant value even with high inflation and he tried to create simple money. However, he was wrong. Anymore, there is no modeling in front of you that you can defend. Is Igno the culprit? No because no one would know until they tried it. However after trying it, it’s an insult to Ignotus to say oh perfect. If he would be here now he would accept these points and try to develop this more. There was only one way for Ignotus to prevent all this. Protecting the market cap of the project with a small protection mechanism without making the first investor rich. Then the power wouldn’t have decreased that much. Is it not true? Also If he did, no one would call Grin unfair, no one would say Grin make early investors rich. Then why don’t you still accept that? You guys still don’t accept and i m sure never accept. There is no development. There is no different idea. ---
**Author:** ![Anynomous](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/anynomous/32/2928_2.png) [@Anynomous](https://forum.grin.mw/u/Anynomous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:25am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/42 "2023-07-12T09:25:26Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > Do you really believe this? I m asking serious. > When Igno was thinking about inflation modeling, is it possible not to have guess of price and marketcap. Whether he/she/they knew is not important. A technocrat like Igno would never compromise on a beautifull design for the sake of investors, and you know this as well. > [@minexpert](#): > > You guys still don’t accept and i m sure never accept. There is no development. There is no different idea. The developments you mention would not improve Grin. If a system ain’t broken don’t fix it. Sure more can be done on developing wishes on the wishlist, but certainly not change a beautifully simple linear emission, that would be utter folly. ---
**Author:** ![oryhp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/oryhp/32/2923_2.png) [@oryhp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/oryhp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/43 "2023-07-12T10:05:20Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > If he would be here now he would accept these points and try to develop this more. Ignotus would not even consider tinkering with the supply schedule. Changing the monetary policy reactively is no different than the central bank reactively pressing the print button when COVID happened. The only difference is that it’s a button that reduces the amount of coins rather than increases. In Grin, just like in Bitcoin, humans don’t control the supply, it just is. We can observe, we can discuss, we can criticize, but we can’t change the policy once the genesis block was created. The time to raise concerns around the monetary policy was 5 years ago. For better or worse, Grin’s supply will remain “Tick tock next coin” ⏱. ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:30am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/44 "2023-07-12T10:30:53Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > There is no different idea. Grin is the unique coin with a different idea for emission. Tens of thousands of coins decided that the current generation should be able to hoard most if not all of the supply. Only one coin decided to do things differently, with an eye toward future generations. But you’re still stuck in the old mindset, wondering how the current generation that you’re part of could have made profits, happily sacrificing the one thing that makes Grin stand out in an ocean of greed. I’d rather see Grin go to $0.01 than see it abandon its principles of simplicity and fairness. ---
**Author:** ![pengliangfui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@pengliangfui](https://forum.grin.mw/u/pengliangfui)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/45 "2023-07-12T11:10:23Z")
我从来不认为grin以时间为发行单位是通胀，因为他一年下来也就是3000多万个代币，不需要人为干涉发型数量，主要原因还是缺少正面的宣传，人们错误认识和缺少流动性，假如能上更多交易所，他的市值不止这么一点。因为现在的交易所你的代币技术在牛逼，没有流量同样不会上市，交易所没有这样胸怀大志的格局。也没有为区块链做出更大的贡献，主要寻求的是人气代币传销诈骗。 ---
**Author:** ![Anynomous](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/anynomous/32/2928_2.png) [@Anynomous](https://forum.grin.mw/u/Anynomous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:22am UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/46 "2023-07-12T11:22:33Z")
我从来不认为grin以时间为发行单位是通胀，因为他一年下来也就是3000多万个代币，不需要人为干涉发型数量，主要原因还是缺少正面的宣传，人们错误认识和缺少流动性，假如能上更多交易所，他的市值不止这么一点。因为现在的交易所你的代币技术在牛逼，没有流量同样不会上市，交易所没有这样胸怀大志的格局。也没有为区块链做出更大的贡献，主要寻求的是人气代币传销诈骗。 True, if an exchange would be in it for ideals and good tech, they would list Grin. Nearly alll exchanges are purely in crypto for the money. ---
**Author:** ![vegycslol](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/vegycslol/32/3340_2.png) [@vegycslol](https://forum.grin.mw/u/vegycslol)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/47 "2023-07-12T12:40:57Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > If he would be here now he would accept these points and try to develop this more. I know i wouldn’t regret choosing linear emission and i doubt igno would. Nobody can know, but once you understand the difference in fairness (among people in the same generation + among multiple generations) between linear emission and others it’s hard to stop appreciating that imo. > [@minexpert](#): > > Also If he did, no one would call Grin unfair, no one would say Grin make early investors rich It would be strictly less fair (objectively) and it would not be a time related chain anymore (would be a shame to sacrifice this due to impatience). It’s important to realize that price and marketcap are an outside thing, whoever predicts them wrong has nobody else to blame but themselves. The best thing a chain can do is set starting rules and don’t change them, which is what grin did. ---
**Author:** ![ardocrat](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/ardocrat/32/5164_2.png) [@ardocrat](https://forum.grin.mw/u/ardocrat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/48 "2023-07-12T13:50:27Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > without making the first investor rich The fairest money as possible, every “investor” can have same conditions in terms of emission to be involved in, Bitcoin is just opposite example, it will fail in terms of decentalization, only small group of banksters/corporations/govts will use it in the end, its just acting at another sphere, and they created it to replace physical gold by digital. Grin is cash it’s for everyone, it will never stop emitting 🙂 Ignotus was very smart to see such failure for Bitcoin, so created Grin for our freedom, thus he is not alone. Those who know, know =) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/7/79e7896ca05c99377ff1720898233a304fde2162.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ardocrat](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/ardocrat/32/5164_2.png) [@ardocrat](https://forum.grin.mw/u/ardocrat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/49 "2023-07-12T14:44:47Z")
If somebody missed: [Grin Money Explained #4 — Exploring Grin’s Monetary Model | by CryptoProfG | Medium](https://medium.com/@CryptoProfG/grin-money-explained-4-exploring-grins-monetary-model-e48b1761653) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/8/895af61f34debbc800a510da3ff4b3c343559559.png) I like this: **GReedy It’s Not** ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/grin/original/2X/f/faa5810da95b31b0e06cc37ebd0c6eefa61af1b2.png) ---
**Author:** ![minexpert](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/minexpert/32/2656_2.png) [@minexpert](https://forum.grin.mw/u/minexpert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/50 "2023-07-12T15:13:34Z")
> [@oryhp](#): > > we can discuss, we can criticize, but we can’t change the policy once the genesis block was created. I don’t support to change too. It’s an experiment and I prefer not to touch it. Whatever happens, let it be. In addition, the most difficult times are behind us. However, this does not mean that I am advocating the policy that created these difficult times. I criticize this and I will always criticize. ---
**Author:** ![minexpert](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/minexpert/32/2656_2.png) [@minexpert](https://forum.grin.mw/u/minexpert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/51 "2023-07-12T15:40:23Z")
> [@tromp](#): > > I’d rather see Grin go to $0.01 than see it abandon its principles of simplicity and fairness. Can you proof mathematicaly, constant distribution is a fair model. You can’t. Constant distribution is not the same as constant inflation. Ignotus did not create a constant inflation model. Therefore, there is no product for fairness. There is only more fairer product than the others. It is more advantageous to enter the system later. In others, it was advantageous to enter into the system before. Ignotus did just the opposite. However, it is still not fair and sufficient. > [@tromp](#): > > Only one coin decided to do things differently, with an eye toward future generations. This model make Grin is moving forward, losing its developers one by one, while other cryptocurrencies develop for the future. It is blocking from everyway to be a product for the future. > [@tromp](#): > > Grin is the unique coin with a different idea for emission. Tens of thousands of coins decided that the current generation should be able to hoard most if not all of the supply. Agree, Grin is unique, but that doesn’t mean it’s faultless. ---
**Author:** ![Anynomous](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/anynomous/32/2928_2.png) [@Anynomous](https://forum.grin.mw/u/Anynomous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/52 "2023-07-12T17:21:13Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > one by one, while other cryptocurrencies develop for the future. It is blocking from everyway to be a product for the future. To the contrary IMO. All projects without linear or tail emission will face a major threat to their security and are existentially trethened in the long run. I am not saying Grins linear emission is perfectly , but it clearly is the fairest project of all crypto projects out there. ---
**Author:** ![vegycslol](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/vegycslol/32/3340_2.png) [@vegycslol](https://forum.grin.mw/u/vegycslol)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/53 "2023-07-12T17:21:54Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > Can you proof mathematicaly, constant distribution is a fair model. You can’t. It’s easy to see why it’s more fair than non-linear ones, just compare the supply change for each generation (so generation\_end\_inflation - generation\_start\_inflation). > [@minexpert](#): > > Ignotus did not create a constant inflation model Correct. > [@minexpert](#): > > Therefore, there is no product for fairness How did you derive that conclusion? Also should the genesis block in your opinion look like in constant inflation model? ---
**Author:** ![minexpert](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/minexpert/32/2656_2.png) [@minexpert](https://forum.grin.mw/u/minexpert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/54 "2023-07-12T18:48:50Z")
> [@vegycslol](#): > > How did you derive that conclusion? Also should the genesis block in your opinion look like in constant inflation model? For fairness, inflation has to be even till forever. The factor affecting the price is not the amount of increase in supply, but the amount of increase in supply relative to total supply. This is the most basic rule of economics. If Ignotus created a currency with fixed inflation from day one to the last, then it would be just fair money. People who enter the Grin at different times will not be equal. In this context, there is no such thing as our block rewards are fixed, everyone is equal and fair. This has zero to do with fairness. We can only say that it is fairer than other cryptocurrencies because over time, anothers make you to reach supply more hardly. It’s a little easier on Grin. ---
**Author:** ![ardocrat](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/ardocrat/32/5164_2.png) [@ardocrat](https://forum.grin.mw/u/ardocrat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/55 "2023-07-12T19:27:26Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > For fairness, inflation has to be even till forever. Thats absolutely not fair, with your example miners are getting more and more coins, so who will come later, will get more. Governments are using constant inflation, cause they have money printer and removed “Gold standard” while ago. I recommend you to check charts what happened after this: [https://wtfhappenedin1971.com](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com) After 40-50 years inflation will be nothing, 2%\< market will not care, I think you just don’t get idea of linear emission: it is fair distribution as long as possible, we can say Grin is almost x10+ fairer than Bitcoin from years of emission, when Bitcoin mining will stop, his experiment will be over, but Grin will stay 4ever. ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/56 "2023-07-12T19:27:28Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > The factor affecting the price is not the amount of increase in supply, but the amount of increase in supply relative to total supply. This is the most basic rule of economics. Did you pass economics 101? The most basic rule is about supply versus demand. If demand grows faster than supply, then price goes up. After the world population peaks, I don’t see how demand could grow exponentially. ---
**Author:** ![vegycslol](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/vegycslol/32/3340_2.png) [@vegycslol](https://forum.grin.mw/u/vegycslol)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/57 "2023-07-12T19:37:58Z")
> [@minexpert](#): > > If Ignotus created a currency with fixed inflation from day one to the last, then it would be just fair money Let’s say the best fixed inflation is X%. At the start there are no coins, so (1+(X/100) \* 0 = 0. You never create a single coin with strictly fixed inflation. That’s why I’ve asked you how does the genesis block look like. ---
**Author:** ![tromp](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/tromp/32/22_2.png) [@tromp](https://forum.grin.mw/u/tromp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/58 "2023-07-12T19:45:38Z")
> [@vegycslol](#): > > That’s why I’ve asked you how does the genesis block look like. If you target 1% yearly inflation and want to end up with about 2.7 billion grin after an entire century, then you’d have to set the genesis reward at 1 billion grin; a huge premine. ---
**Author:** ![vegycslol](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/vegycslol/32/3340_2.png) [@vegycslol](https://forum.grin.mw/u/vegycslol)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/59 "2023-07-12T19:51:14Z")
Exactly, you’ve spoiled the issue for him 😛 ---
**Author:** ![minexpert](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forum.grin.mw/minexpert/32/2656_2.png) [@minexpert](https://forum.grin.mw/u/minexpert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579/60 "2023-07-12T20:13:11Z")
> [@tromp](#): > > Did you pass economics 101? > > The most basic rule is about supply versus demand. > If demand grows faster than supply, then price goes up. > > After the world population peaks, I don’t see how demand could grow exponentially. Every word is correct what i say. Mathematically and economicly. If you don’t understand what I’m saying, you can blame demand for the price drop so far. You don’t need to calculate the link with inflation at all. Demand is directly connected to inflation.Inflationary currencies have less demand. Again, Economics 101. My purpose of saying this is so that you guys don’t say our block reward is constant and it’s amazing. The constancy of the block reward is a sham. The main factor is Inflation. [Previous page](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.grin.mw/t/use-grin-coin-as-a-reserve-for-more-advanced-fair-tokens/10579.md?page=4)